Stanton 500 Gold

the thin end of the wedge
panosliak
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Stanton 500 Gold

Post by panosliak » 17 May 2016 15:16

Hello to all of you Gents
I was wondering if this setup have nice sound.
The stylus might be the D5100E?
Confirm please.I do not have a Microscope so i cant examine the state of the stylus.
What do you think from the 2 pics i posted?
Thank you!

http://s32.postimg.org/n6p6adrv9/IMG_20 ... 165656.jpg

http://s32.postimg.org/hlywuiout/IMG_20 ... 170242.jpg

bauzace50
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by bauzace50 » 18 May 2016 01:07

The condition of the diamond cannot be known from the photo. IF the tip is still good, the cartridge will be good for very decent sound. I personally like the "500 sound". It is valuable with a good tip.

But as soon as the tip wears out, it is almost impossible to get a decent replacement.

Good luck as long as the tip is good. After that your only decent option would probably be a retip from Expert Stylus Company in England. Or a retip from SoundSmith in USA. OR get a different cartridge.

I do not know if the JICO replacement is any good.
Regards,
bauzace50

tubeactive

Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by tubeactive » 18 May 2016 02:07

Stanton 500s are fine cartridges. Stylus replacement is easy stateside and in Euro countries. Latin America has them too. Any stylus that fits a Pickering V15 or Stanton 500 will fit. There will be no need for an expensive retip.

If the front of your stylus has the red square i.d., then it is a D5100E; genuine Stanton only discernible with a close-up pic.

There are a ton of aftermarket styli available. Can you take a pic of the stylus looking through an eye loupe ?

bauzace50
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by bauzace50 » 18 May 2016 06:44

tubeactive,

It seems I have been buying from the people who have all the BAD styli for my 500. After purchasing four bad "aftermarket" styli I gave up.

Please direct me to a good supplier.
(name and address).
Thankyou,
bauzace50

ciccio64
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by ciccio64 » 18 May 2016 08:39

https://www.thakker.eu/en/replacement-s ... dFilter=63

Here it is. Myself buy a Stanton 680ee stylus over here .They are Jico brand and I am very happy with it.

needlewhine

Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by needlewhine » 18 May 2016 15:05

Depends on what you plan to do with it. If you want a light-tracking stylus for a manual turntable, those are very difficult to find. The aftermarket does not currently produce any light-tracking elliptical or conical styli for that cartridge even though sellers claim to have them. I have ordered a light-tracking elliptical aftermarket stylus from all major online vendors and have gotten heavy tracking styli in packaging that indicates a light-tracking stylus. I got refunds from all of these sellers and refused to waste my time returning the styli. They know what they are doing. The heavy tracking styli sound great, too, but only on the right arm. They are meant for heavier arms on record changers.

Original styli can be found and are generally worth the pain of turning one up, though the Pickering styli are definitely better in this regard. I have had problems with Stanton OEM styli being too sibilant at required VTF, but this has never been a problem with a Pickering D-AME-3 for example. If you snag an original D-AME-3 or D-AME-2 or even a D-AM-3 or D-AM-2 (conical), you may well be surprised at how well this humble and ubiquitous cartridge can sound. The models with the "3" include the Pickering Dustamatic brush but are otherwise the same stylus.

Jico are decent and not sibilant, but they are rolled off on the top end and so sound dull.

Pfanstiehl styli are decent, but they are low compliance and so don't work well for manual turntables with light arms unless the VTF is set rather high. The packaging of the 4820-DE clearly gives a VTF range of 3-7g. One option is to add auxiliary weight to your arm. On my SL1200 I do this with my Denon DL-103 and it also works well with lower compliance styli to bring up the bass response.

An excellent stylus found on ebay for only $10 is the TEI 791D. It's mid compliance conical, probably a copy of the 500AL stylus, but it's a faithful copy compared to originals. Construction details include the same short, fat, truncated aluminum alloy cantilever, tie wire and insert tube suspension "crimp." I find that this is an excellent stylus that sounds great at tracking forces as low as 1.75-2.25g on my SL1200. Spec is 2-5g. I can't speak for how these styli hold up to DJ use since that's not my forte. But for listening, they sound great and are cheap as chips. Also, unlike many/most aftermarket styli and even some OEM, these are not in my experience prone towards sibilance in any way. I've had more than a few to experiment with over the years and they've never been sibilant and they are not rolled off on the high end like Jico.

During break in, I keep them up around 2.5g VTF, but the suspension does soften up a bit after a while and stabilizes, which DJ's might not like and could be considered a flaw I suppose. But for me it allows me to reduce tracking force.

Retipping is another option, but it's expensive and risky. I have not tried SoundSmith, but I probably will soon. I have tried Expert Stylus and, well, they didn't do a great job. I sent a Stanton D81 and a Pickering D1200 off, both for ultra low mass Paratrace tips on sapphire cantilevers. After a very long wait with little to no communications, I got notice that they were ready. The D1200 had a damaged tie-wire, though, so an aluminum cantilever was installed in its place without any notice to me beforehand and the price reduced accordingly.

The styli arrived and the cantilever on the D81 was too long which resulted in increased compliance such that it did not behave properly on my SL1200 even though it sounded fantastic. I finally installed the cartridge on my lightest headshell with nylon hardware instead of the Stanton mounting blocks and based on the position of the CW now, I think I shaved off about 1.5g. The stylus behaves great now, finally, but of course, the overhang is different so I can no longer swap styli without readjusting overhang--a pain. Expert Stylus does not see interested at all in correcting this error and instead, they only offer excuses that the increased length of the cantilever is to counter the hardening effects of old suspensions. In my case, however, it's pretty clear that the lengthened cantilever was not necessary. Of course if you don't swap styli, then this is not an issue.

The D1200 cantilever was very short compared to original, and it is the most sibilant stylus I've ever even heard--far worse than a cheap, brittle, $2 replacement stylus. It's terrible. For whatever reason, ES did not decide to increase the length of this cantilever when, perhaps, they should have. In fact, it's shorter which probably is much of the cause of the sibilance. Nevertheless, increasing VTF to 3g and beyond does nothing to tame the sibilance.

I am currently working with Expert Stylus on how to get this situation resolved, but poor communications does not help things. They want to send me a Shure M97xE with Paratrace/sapphire. That's cool. But what about my Pickering?

Since I am located in the states, sending packages back and forth to ES is a real hassle. When I thought, based on what I'd heard, that it was all going to be worth it, I didn't mind the waiting in line and reams of customs forms so much. But now, I don't know. The best I can say is that right now I can't recommend Expert Stylus for retipping removable styli. They still may take more care when retipping expensive moving coil cartridges. But for inexpensive styli, I did not get "the best" results as I was led to believe I would.

SoundSmith might be the better way to go if you are located in the US. They are not completely free of horror stories either, though, so it may just be better and easier to find old OEM styli.

panosliak
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by panosliak » 18 May 2016 18:51

needlewhine YOU ROCK man,..
many Thanks from all of us !

mamakasou
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by mamakasou » 19 May 2016 10:07

needlewhine wrote: The best I can say is that right now I can't recommend Expert Stylus for retipping removable styli. They still may take more care when retipping expensive moving coil cartridges. But for inexpensive styli, I did not get "the best" results as I was led to believe I would.
needlewhine, I am sorry that you got such bad results. I was, too, kind of "relying" on the expert stylus option, when my OEM Pickering/Stanton needles kick the bucket..

Now that i read your story, It makes me think if there are any options left.

I wonder, however, if you had given them a simpler job, such as just a replacement of a worn out diamond of a simple design (i.e. conical), in an intact cantilever, how would they perform?

Panosliak, there isnt much to add after needlewhine's reply. As he said, it depends what you plan to do with the 500. If you are after preserving the original Stanton sound, just be prepared to hunt for an NOS stylus. Good luck.

Best regards,

Nick, Athens

panosliak
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by panosliak » 19 May 2016 14:34

Thanks Nikos!

needlewhine

Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by needlewhine » 19 May 2016 14:50

mamakasou wrote:
needlewhine wrote: The best I can say is that right now I can't recommend Expert Stylus for retipping removable styli. They still may take more care when retipping expensive moving coil cartridges. But for inexpensive styli, I did not get "the best" results as I was led to believe I would.
needlewhine, I am sorry that you got such bad results. I was, too, kind of "relying" on the expert stylus option, when my OEM Pickering/Stanton needles kick the bucket..

Now that i read your story, It makes me think if there are any options left.

I wonder, however, if you had given them a simpler job, such as just a replacement of a worn out diamond of a simple design (i.e. conical), in an intact cantilever, how would they perform?
Well, it's a mixed bag as I described. I'm not going to condemn them, of course. They, apparently, do unbelievably awesome work for everyone else. I am going to assume that simply placing a Paratrace tip onto a good cantilever is an easier job (and much less expensive, BTW). For my own personal retipping of a stylus with a good cantilever, I'd still have to consider them, really. There aren't a lot of choices elsewhere. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd try them again. I do think the $250 total that I ended up paying for the D81 including shipping was still worth it considering what I got in return.

What I got in return is head and shoulders above every other cartridge I've got except maybe the Shure V15-VMR. I can't say that it's better than my Pickering XLZ-7500S because the D81 works in the XLZ-7500S and it sounds fantastic. Just for an idea, the ES 881S/D81 sapphire/Paratrace handily trounces the Audio-Technica OC9ML/II, AT MLX150, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Ortofon 540 MK1, Denon DL-110, Denon DL-103, etc. This is in not only tracking ability but sound. They are all bleeding and dying . . . and these are fantastic sounding and tracking cartridges.

It's so much better, to me, than my V15-VMR with the Jico SAS that I'd still go with ES if I could over getting an SAS, even if SAS weren't discontinued. The ES D81 tracks warped records better than all of them, though. However, much/most of that tracking ability has to be credited to the Stanton's superior design and the use of the stabilizer brush.

So, ES retip is not a perfect solution in every case, or it hasn't been with me. Customer Service is a nightmare by American standards for sure. Miss Julia Thompson, Client Liaison, sends what seem to me to be snippy emails--but it's email, you know. She might not mean to be snippy, but she is not above condescension. Nevertheless, her answers given for the problems regarding the two styli are totally contradictory. But I wouldn't even know any of this, of course, if they had done their job according to their claims which encourage not just high, but the highest expectations.

So what I'm saying is that even if I can't in good faith recommend them to others because of the hassle, when it comes down to it I would probably use them again. As it is, I am still trying to find a mutually satisfactory resolution to the problem. They are sending me a cartridge and a couple of styli for my evaluation. I may send them more styli in need of retipping/recantilevering, etc.--but that's because I am still working on this deal as we speak and I'm trying to get my money's worth. I don't have another Stanton or Pickering moving iron stylus for the 680/681/XV-15 to send them, though. I do have a couple more moving magnet styli, though, a D3000 and a D4000, plus plenty of P Mount tips for the 500/V15 types. However, if they insist on lengthening the cantilevers, then sending P Mount styli is a bad idea. Don't know what to do there.

For a totally new job, I probably will try SoundSmith next, though, if that means anything. But for my own personal needs, I would still have to keep ES open as an option for myself. I just can't make the recommendation.

bauzace50
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by bauzace50 » 19 May 2016 19:20

Mmm. Very surprising notion. I have had Expert Stylus Paratrace jobs on
ADC XLM,
Stanton 500,
Denon Dl-103R,
Shure M97xE,
Sumiko EVO III,
Grado Black,
including the Sapphire cantilever on the ADC XLM.

All were top quality jobs at decent price. Cannot understand previous putdown.
b50

P.S.- am currently waiting on SoundSmith for the Stanton 500 I shipped to them to obtain the ruby cantilever and line contact tip.

needlewhine

Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by needlewhine » 20 May 2016 03:53

bauzace50 wrote: Cannot understand previous putdown.
Trust me. I don't want to believe it, either. Your post pretty much rubs it in. I remember that you got a Stanton D50E or D50EE retipped a while back. All I've heard was great things from Expert Stylus, so of course I went with them. I am shocked that I'm the one dud. You can't believe how frustrating and disappointing this is.

What do you think of that M97xE?

bauzace50
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by bauzace50 » 20 May 2016 10:29

Expert Stylus installed the Paratrace stylus on one Shure M97xE I used to have. It was a high quality job showing that new diamond tip.

The retip was succesful as far as showing the finer details on LPs. But its mild treble rolloff was only partially improved.

This was different from a JICO SAS I later used on the M97xE, which eliminated the mild rolloff and transformed the cartridge into a brilliant performer.

My Stanton 500 E Mk II with the Expert Stylus Paratrace performs beautifully, and is a favorite of mine which keeps its neutral tonal balance. Sending it for one SoundSmith ruby cantilever hopes to obtain a slightly brighter tonal balance. That's like having the cake with two great differing flavors.

Regards, and best wishes,
b50

panosliak
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Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by panosliak » 20 May 2016 14:25

Anyone tried original D70E to a Stanton 500 gold body?

needlewhine

Re: Stanton 500 Gold

Post by needlewhine » 20 May 2016 14:51

bauzace50 wrote:Expert Stylus installed the Paratrace stylus on one Shure M97xE I used to have. It was a high quality job showing that new diamond tip.

The retip was succesful as far as showing the finer details on LPs. But its mild treble rolloff was only partially improved.

This was different from a JICO SAS I later used on the M97xE, which eliminated the mild rolloff and transformed the cartridge into a brilliant performer.

My Stanton 500 E Mk II with the Expert Stylus Paratrace performs beautifully, and is a favorite of mine which keeps its neutral tonal balance. Sending it for one SoundSmith ruby cantilever hopes to obtain a slightly brighter tonal balance. That's like having the cake with two great differing flavors.

Regards, and best wishes,
b50
You're sending the same stylus to SoundSmith that you had already had retipped from Expert Stylus? Or is it is a different one? If so, that must be the most bejeweled Stanton 500 on the planet! Can't say I don't blame you. I'll be very interested in hearing your review of the 500 E MKII with the SoundSmith retip/recantilever.

I don't understand why the aftermarket doesn't make a nice light-tracking stylus for the 500 or the Pickering V15.

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