What material is this needle tip composed of?

the thin end of the wedge
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Sandy Stone
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What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Sandy Stone » 07 Sep 2013 05:22

Okay, this is a question that is as easy as breathing to the regulars on this forum. Here it is. I have a stylus, which is a turnover type. It is marked N on one side and M on the other.

I found out that M means the needle is made for MANUAL professional type turntable--has the highest internal compliance. According to an ebay needle guide.

So what does the N Mean?

Sandy Stone
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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Sandy Stone » 07 Sep 2013 05:41

I should also mention that the M is red and the N is green. It is used in a Philips portable player


Obscurist
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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Obscurist » 07 Sep 2013 08:52

M stands for Microgroove, N for Normal.

Steerpike_jhb
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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Steerpike_jhb » 07 Sep 2013 12:25

The Philips turnover styli are usually used in the GP200 and GP300 series of ceramic cartridges. Not high compliance at all; fairly low compliance in fact.

The N stylus tip was ALWAYS sapphire, the Microgroove tip was sapphire or diamond, depending on the model number - they made both.

Doug G.
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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Doug G. » 07 Sep 2013 18:22

Ah, the dangers of eBay articles/guides. Too many people writing things about which they know nothing. Yes, N = Normal or wide groove as on shellac 78s. M = Microgroove as on modern LPs.

It became much more common to have "LP" and "78" imprinted on the styli handles.

Doug

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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Coffee Phil » 07 Sep 2013 18:35

Hi Steerpike_jhb,

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but could you talk about this sapphire thing for 78s. The guy who re-tipped my Sonus and B&O SP 12 for 78s used sapphire. Some of this is cost, but he does prefer sapphire for 78s. I have never understood the argument other than cost for sapphire.

Phil


Steerpike_jhb wrote:The Philips turnover styli are usually used in the GP200 and GP300 series of ceramic cartridges. Not high compliance at all; fairly low compliance in fact.

The N stylus tip was ALWAYS sapphire, the Microgroove tip was sapphire or diamond, depending on the model number - they made both.

Doug G.
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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Doug G. » 07 Sep 2013 19:00

In the days of flip-over styli, I believe it was purely cost as manufacturers probably reasoned that most people, by that time, would play LPs and not as many 78s anymore.

Why have the styli cost that much extra and endanger sales?

I have heard/read, in the past, of some insisting 78s sound better with sapphire but I think that's nonsense.

Doug

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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Sandy Stone » 08 Sep 2013 02:23

Thanks steerpike for the reply. =P~

I am having an issue with it. It will click off about half way through a 45.

I looked for a simple solution, like an adjustment screw, but no luck.

It is a low end player, but I just picked it up for $2.00 to take to second hand shops to try before I buy.

Here are some some pictures. If you need better ones I can post them.

270092701027008

Coffee Phil
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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Coffee Phil » 08 Sep 2013 05:18

Hi Doug,

Thanks. That is what I was thinking. I am pretty sure that my N44-3 in my Shure M44 body is a diamond. That is pretty much my main 78 cartridge and stylus. I have an old GE RPX for which I bought new old stock styli. The one for Lps is diamond and the 78 stylus is sapphire.

One would think diamond would be much preferred for 78s considering that the older one can be pretty abrasive.

Phil
Doug G. wrote:In the days of flip-over styli, I believe it was purely cost as manufacturers probably reasoned that most people, by that time, would play LPs and not as many 78s anymore.

Why have the styli cost that much extra and endanger sales?

I have heard/read, in the past, of some insisting 78s sound better with sapphire but I think that's nonsense.

Doug

lini
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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by lini » 09 Sep 2013 02:14

Sandy Stone wrote: (...) I found out that M means the needle is made for MANUAL professional type turntable--has the highest internal compliance. According to an ebay needle guide. (...)
I guess that rather was a specific guide to Pfanstiehl replacement needle codes, in which the M indeed had that meaning.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Doug G. » 09 Sep 2013 18:50

OK, Manfred, in the words of Johnny Carson, I did not know that. :D

Phil, I bet that M44 makes 78s sound fabulous. I use an M78S on a 1019 and that's what that set up does. I actually still marvel at these late forties Columbias and RCAs my dear late father bought then.

Doug

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Re: What material is this needle tip composed of?

Post by Coffee Phil » 10 Sep 2013 06:56

Hi Doug,
Yes the Shure does a fine job on the 78s. Some of the 78s of the late '40s can sound remarkable. I know Columbia had a laminated shellac where they could optimize strength in the core and use quieter stuff for the surfaces. Some of the Deccas of that era have a sound which I really like. I have some 78s pressed into vinyl and they can rival Lps.

Phil
Doug G. wrote:OK, Manfred, in the words of Johnny Carson, I did not know that. :D

Phil, I bet that M44 makes 78s sound fabulous. I use an M78S on a 1019 and that's what that set up does. I actually still marvel at these late forties Columbias and RCAs my dear late father bought then.

Doug

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