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XB Frustration

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XB Frustration

Postby dcheek » 26 Dec 2005 22:23

My first posting so please zone out if this subject has been posted a thousand times before.
Over the holiday I finally found the time to attempt to fix the sluggish platter start-up on my Ebay purchased AR XB. First, the unit is in VERY good physical condition. Although it is not fully tested it appears to have been well cared for. However, upon starting the platter, I have to give it a little nudge to get it spinning. From what I gather this is a common problem with the Haydon single motor turntables. So, I did the obvious; I purchased a used motor on Ebay. I installed it today and, guess what? No nudge needed. Then, in and effort to quiet the motor bearing I put one drop of oil on the shaft and now the thing has no torque at all!!!!!! Yes, I have a new belt and yes I did the talcing routine. What the heck is going on???? Now the motor is quiet, but it runs worse than the one I replaced!!! Did I ruin the motor with the lube?
Will changing the capacitors improve the start-up?

I own an XA since 1969 and the thing starts up every time. I like the originality (albeit inferior by today's standards) of all my audio equipment and would like to use an original motor if I can get it to work.



I will thoroughly test the unit once I get the motor problem solved.
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Postby ddarch88 » 26 Dec 2005 23:11

I've never had a motor do that after a lube...and I've done it dozens of times.

Could it be the pulley or spindle got oil on it? Or even the belt? Obviously, it's critical to keep those surfaces clean.

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Postby dcheek » 26 Dec 2005 23:49

Well, I never had it happen either. I've oiled my XA with no problems. I'm thinking the caps are causing the sluggish start.
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Postby dcheek » 26 Dec 2005 23:52

No oil on the spindle or belt either. I know that these motor must "slip" to get the platter to spin. That's why the original manual instructs you to talc the belt.
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Postby dcheek » 26 Dec 2005 23:53

Also installed a new belt. Same problem.
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Postby abone » 27 Dec 2005 05:22

Here is my post on exactly the same topic.

https://vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=5230

I tried all that was suggested and I too still have to give it a nudge to get it moving. (My TT is like new as it sat in my Dad's closet for over almost 30 years). I never thought about the fresh oil but I don't think it started sluggishly until there was fresh oil added.
One thing I just thought of however is the tiny grommet or "o" ring at the top of the spindle well has deteriorated.....I wonder if that could be the culprit? Does anyone know what would work in place of the original?


How is the Shure cart? I went with a Grado Black and am not satisfied at all with it.
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Postby dcheek » 27 Dec 2005 12:35

Abone,
I've already read the post you are referring to. Thanks. The "o" ring you are referring to; is it on the motor spindle? Or, are you talking about the foam one on the platter spindle opening?


The Shure carts are 35 plus years old and are from my original vinyl stash. They sound great. Just be be sure that they are performing up to par I tested them using a Shure Cartridge test record. I'm sure you've seen or heard these. Anyway, they passed all the test grooves with no problems. From what I understand these cartridges and replacement needles are no longer available. In the past year I've resurrected my turntables and record collection and have had a blast reliving my high school/college days. I guess I'm sounding like a geezer but, as far as I'm concerned, the mid to late 60's, all the 70's and the early 80's music is what I would call the golden age of Rock. Which coincides with (again my opinion) the golden age of 2 channel stereo. And to think I was going to pitch all my vinyl!

My objective is to play these records on period correct stereo equipment as they originally were intended to be heard. That's why I'm determined to get this XB running like new.

Has anyone changed the caps to improve the motor performance? There are two. One bridges the on/off switch. The other larger one is on the motor. I think they might have something to do with getting the motor to rotate in the right direction??? As you can see I'm no electrical engineer. Just an AR enthusiast. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Postby ddarch88 » 27 Dec 2005 12:48

I've never replaced those caps...as I've found the Haydon motors super reliable speed-wise.

I think it would be excellent if you gave that a try and reported back on the results.


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XB Frustration

Postby Blue Angel » 27 Dec 2005 14:13

Hi dcheek

Nice to hear you want to play vinyl again!

I'm not familiar with your tt but the bridging cap at the switch is probably a 'click' suppressor - ie to prevent a loud click noise through your speakers on switching on your turn table.

The other cap at the motor is most likely a 'smooth start' device - ie to let the motor start smoothly without jerking on startup.

Caps are cheap. Why don't you replace these caps and see what happens?

Best wishes

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Postby dcheek » 27 Dec 2005 17:45

dddarch88,

I'm going to try to source the caps this weekend. Unfortunately this work thing is screwing up my audiophile hobby! Please be patient as it might be difficult to find an exact match. I will let you know via this post how I make out.
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Postby dcheek » 27 Dec 2005 17:52

Blue Angel,

An AR XB turntable is basically a later version of the XA. Some differences are a rocker type on/off switch, steel balance weight instead of brass, tone arm cueing lift and faux wood vinyl over pressed board base.

Thanks for the insight on the caps. As mentioned to ddarch88 I plan to look for the caps this weekend. I will report my result ASAP.
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Postby danieldust » 27 Dec 2005 18:41

Hi Dcheek,

Did you win that AR motor on Ebay a week or two ago? I was going to bid on that, but I forgot!

As someone who recently ruined the motor on his AR XA by removing and replacing the belt pulley too many times, I feel for you. Good luck and let us know what happens.
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Postby abone » 27 Dec 2005 19:18

[quote="dcheek"] The "o" ring you are referring to; is it on the motor spindle? Or, are you talking about the foam one on the platter spindle opening?

I am referring to the foam one on the platter spindle opening. It has basically rotted away to nothing.

Anyway, I had a brain-wave and remembered I hadn't thrown out my original belt (32 years old). I just replaced the new one with the original and guess what? It starts up fine again, no nudge needed. I can't believe it!! A local shop fixed meup with a new belt that they "claimed" was a replacement and as I look at it now it is wider, so not a direct replacement at all.
Anyone recommend where to buy replacements for the XB?
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Postby dcheek » 27 Dec 2005 19:40

danieldust,
Not the same motor. I won this thing months ago and never had the chance to install.

It's funny you should mention the pulley on and off thing. Come to think of it I did have it on and off a couple of times. Maybe I screwed up the bearing?

I'm not completely sure but there is no mention in the original owners manual about lubing the motor. In general, most motors are sealed and will self destruct if lubricated. Only really old electric motors have oil holes. And even then you should oil sparingly. I'm in the printing business and we had a pressman toast a huge drive motor by oiling a motor that should not have been left alone.

Since this motor worked fine before oiling, meaning it started the platter without a nudge, I just assumed my oiling caused the problem. Maybe the pulley on and off the shaft a couple of times is the culprit.

Thanks for your input. I'm determined to get to the bottom of this and will keep everyone posted.
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Postby danieldust » 28 Dec 2005 15:04

Dcheek, for what it's worth, my motor got real noisy after taking the pulley off/putting it back on several times.

I work in the printing biz too, by the way.
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