Shure N91ED Hi-Track Stylus differences

the thin end of the wedge
thumpin
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Shure N91ED Hi-Track Stylus differences

Post by thumpin » 12 Aug 2010 00:36

I have a few Shure M91ED carts and I recently purchased a NOS original Hi-Track stylus via freebay and I was surprised to see the differences as pictured below. From a sound point of view, the small round cantilever sounds better :cry: which is the old stylus :roll:
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LPfan
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Post by LPfan » 12 Aug 2010 02:28

Do they have the tie wire?

Regards,

LPfan

thumpin
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Post by thumpin » 12 Aug 2010 02:42

LPfan wrote:Do they have the tie wire?

Regards,

LPfan
Thanks but more info needed :? I've got no-idea what you are talking about :?:

VinylIsTheBest
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Post by VinylIsTheBest » 12 Aug 2010 02:48

Here is the ultimate stylus for your Shure M91 cartridge. JICO SAS (Super Analog Stylus) your M91 will sound better than the original stylus. I have one in my Shure M97xE and it sounds great!

http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/s ... ts_id=1025

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Post by LPfan » 12 Aug 2010 03:45

thumpin wrote:
LPfan wrote:Do they have the tie wire?

Regards,

LPfan
Thanks but more info needed :? I've got no-idea what you are talking about :?:
Hi!

Most of the original NOS Shure styli have a tie wire that secures the rear end of the cantilever to the rear end of the shank. The generics do not have this feature. Looking closely at your photos, the small blob of solder to hold down the tie wire at the shank end can be seen. You have to look through a magnifying glass up the rear end of the shank to check that the wire is in place. Although I am not an expert who can explain the purpose of this wire, I believe that it controls resonances and thus helps to improve the performance. I use this feature as an easy method to identify between the originals and generics.

Regards,

LPfan

Alec124c41
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Post by Alec124c41 » 12 Aug 2010 03:55

I suspect that the red-labeled stylus is from Shure's later Mexican production.

Cheers,
Alec

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Rain on parade

Post by josephazannieri » 12 Aug 2010 04:44

Yo Thumpin:

I hate to say it, but I think that the one on left with thicker cantilever looks like it's not an original Shure, but some crude aftermarket copy. You can see that the top of the word "SHURE" on front of stylus is cut off. This is an appearance flaw that would have gotten an original unit bounced on inspection. I have never seen anything coming directly from Shure that is that crude, Mexican or not. The appearance of the genuine Shure product is uniform.

Don't know where it came from, but I don't think it's an original Shure, unless it's one that flunked inspection and was spirited from the plant by a garbage collector in a trash bin. Was it packed in original Shure packaging? The pedigree of some of this Ebay stuff is a little questionable sometimes.

Also, having an original M91 in my spare parts box, the one on right has the right cantilever in it. What does this thing track at? The one on left looks like an M44 or something that wants a relatively heavy force.

Sorry about that, but that's my opinion, which when combined with a dollar, gets you a cup of senior coffee at McDonald's.

Good luck from the old party pooper!

Joe Z.

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Post by LPfan » 12 Aug 2010 04:47

Alec124c41 wrote:I suspect that the red-labeled stylus is from Shure's later Mexican production.

Cheers,
Alec
That could be a possible reason. If you have a good magnifier, try to inspect the dimond on both. There could be differences such as bonded and nude. Also,The cantilever on that one is curved down at the front end, towards the record surface, while the other on is not like that. I suspect you may not be able to achieve optimum VTA on the one with the thicker cantilever.

Regards,

LPfan

thumpin
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Re: Rain on parade

Post by thumpin » 13 Aug 2010 06:24

josephazannieri wrote:Yo Thumpin:

I hate to say it, but I think that the one on left with thicker cantilever looks like it's not an original Shure, but some crude aftermarket copy. You can see that the top of the word "SHURE" on front of stylus is cut off. This is an appearance flaw that would have gotten an original unit bounced on inspection. I have never seen anything coming directly from Shure that is that crude, Mexican or not. The appearance of the genuine Shure product is uniform.

Don't know where it came from, but I don't think it's an original Shure, unless it's one that flunked inspection and was spirited from the plant by a garbage collector in a trash bin. Was it packed in original Shure packaging? The pedigree of some of this Ebay stuff is a little questionable sometimes.

Also, having an original M91 in my spare parts box, the one on right has the right cantilever in it. What does this thing track at? The one on left looks like an M44 or something that wants a relatively heavy force.

Sorry about that, but that's my opinion, which when combined with a dollar, gets you a cup of senior coffee at McDonald's.

Good luck from the old party pooper!

Joe Z.
Thanks Joe. I was hoping it was just a late model stylus. You can't see in the photo but the red labelled stylus is a fraction shorter in height which when fitted to the cart leaves a gap.
As for the seller, well a very well respected US ebayer that trades by the name of stereoneedleslady. 12 000 feedback 99% rating.
The Stylus was packed in a Pfanstiehl packaging and not original Shure packaging.
I have since sent a message to the seller to see what they think of the situation :roll:

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"Shure" M91 stylus

Post by josephazannieri » 13 Aug 2010 16:05

Yo Thumpin:

You may have figured it out. It's probably a Pfanstiehl replacement stylus that came from whoever Pfanstiehl's manufacturer is. Try running it at 3 grams pressure. Maybe that will mprove it. It looks like an M44 cantilever, and those track at 3 grams. Also, listen to it and see if it's louder or softer than your original stylus. May also sound better after breakin.

I think you may have a good faith misrepresentation (that means an honest mistake) here. It's probably a new old stock Pfanstiehl needle that your ebay seller got when she bought out some stylus merchant. She probably came into a bunch of stuff that included some NOS Shure and some other NOS stuff. It may be NOS, but not Shure NOS.

That's the problem with Ebay. You can't expect somebody who sell LOTS of different styli to know each one like it was their kid. As a consequence, they sometimes make mistakes. Like I said, this one definitely doesn't look like a Shure to me, but I could be wrong, and I am subject to correction by those more knowledgable than I.

Good luck!

Joe Z.

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Post by electrode10101 » 13 Aug 2010 21:07

The stylus on the left looks like one I received from Shure when they were still running their stylus trade in program. Much thicker cantilever that the old made in the USA model.

I don't think the OP's is an after market. Just what happened to Shure styli when they started having them made off shore.

jD

ipapb

Post by ipapb » 13 Aug 2010 23:00

Hi
I agree with Joe. I think the stylus left is not a true original Shure: Cantilever is too big !

ipapb

LPfan
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Post by LPfan » 14 Aug 2010 03:11

ipapb wrote:Hi
I agree with Joe. I think the stylus left is not a true original Shure: Cantilever is too big !

ipapb
If the OP confirms regarding the presence (or absence) of the tie wire that I mentioned in the previous post, then we shall know for s(h)ure.

Regards,

LPfan

thumpin
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Post by thumpin » 15 Aug 2010 23:03

I've had some developments and to answer some questions.

LPFAN, both the stylus's have the tie wire you described.

The Ebay seller has replied saying that the Shure branded stylus's they sell are genuine SHure products and in my case, packaged by Pfanstiehl in which they are a dealer. Knowing the evolution of the N91ED Stylus is unknown to them but She assure's me the supplied stylus is a South American version that is made to strict Shure quality specifications and is not a "second" and passed quality control.

Hmm, as Joe said, "Buyer beware" with old stock.

Joe, I gave it a run at 2.5 - 3.2 VTF as suggested and it sounds about the same as 1.6 where it suppose to run. I think having a direct comparison stylus available shows this replacement item in a bad light. On its own its probably acceptable and most wouldn't realise that its far from original factory performance of the original stylus :roll:

I might save me pennie's for a JICO SAS :wink:

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Post by lini » 16 Aug 2010 16:39

Yup, that looks like a genuine, but later Mexican version with el fatso cantilever - and obviously an exemplar on which the stamp for the imprint slipped a bit. ;)

And, yup, stylus choice is quite a science sometimes. You probably recall the problem with the Dual DN160E, of which only the earlier exmplars are nudies, whereas the later ones are just bonded and not worth buying over the cheaper DN155E and DN152E. Another example is the Ortofon needle 40, of which the earlier exemplars were vdHII, whereas the later ones are Gyger70.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

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