Sony PS-X800 Zero Balance Adjustment procedure help.

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Professor Bizzt
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Sony PS-X800 Zero Balance Adjustment procedure help.

Post by Professor Bizzt » 01 Jul 2010 22:14

I was wondering if anyone on this forum is technically familiar enough with the Sony PS-X800 to answer a question if you please.

On page 25 of the service manual there is a "Zero Balance Adjustment" calibration procedure.

THEY STATE:
1- Place extra weight of 3g on the shell.

2- During play, check that the voltage at TP8 is about -0.5V and call this voltage "E".

3- When pushing [ < ] button, make sure that voltage at TP8 is as identical to "E". If necessary, adjust RV112.


I tried interpreting and implimenting this procedure every possible way I could come up with, and got nowhere. What do you think? Please help as I have enough grey hairs already!

P.S. I am attempting to do this calibration procedure with an aftermarket headshell and cartridge and not the original Sony PS-X800 headshell and Sony XL-44L moving coil cartridge.

I am fairly sure that the PS-X800 originally came with the XL-44L cartridge, and this cartridge weighs in at a claimed 6.2 grams. The original PS-X800 headshell alone weighs in at a claimed 7.2 grams.

Thanks....

fscl
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Re: Sony PS-X800 Zero Balance Adjustment procedure help.

Post by fscl » 02 Jul 2010 02:12

Professor Bizzt wrote:I was wondering if anyone on this forum is technically familiar enough with the Sony PS-X800 to answer a question if you please.

On page 25 of the service manual there is a "Zero Balance Adjustment" calibration procedure.

THEY STATE:
1- Place extra weight of 3g on the shell.

2- During play, check that the voltage at TP8 is about -0.5V and call this voltage "E".

3- When pushing [ < ] button, make sure that voltage at TP8 is as identical to "E". If necessary, adjust RV112.


I tried interpreting and implimenting this procedure every possible way I could come up with, and got nowhere. What do you think? Please help as I have enough grey hairs already!
Welcome to VE......:)

Intriguing table, I'm a linear tracking fan myself, it started with my first Technics SL-7.....:) ](*,)

Don't have ANY experience with the Sony, however, after perusing MANY of the Instruction and Service manuals in the VE library will take a stab at this.... :roll:

I'm thinking this is another East - West (gonna have to cue up Paul Butterfield BB after this) "Lost in Translation" deal going on here. :-k

Believe instruction Step 3 should show pressing the (^ ) button or the cue up button on the table. :-k

Reading through the literature, the arm automatically balances the tonearm each time you play an LP then applies the VTF set by the dial. Calibration consists of voltage matching, so when you add 3 extra gr. the arm balances the extra weight automatically. When you play an LP, with the extra weight, the tonearm compensates a bit more to insure that the needle is tracking at 1.5 gr. for example. You are reading this voltage say E while the LP is playing. I believe when you cue the arm UP, this then becomes the same voltage used to overcome the extra added weight and by using RV 112, match voltage while the needle is on the LP with the voltage needed to raise the arm...... :idea: :-k Make sense.... :roll:
P.S. I am attempting to do this calibration procedure with an aftermarket headshell and cartridge and not the original Sony PS-X800 headshell and Sony XL-44L moving coil cartridge.

I am fairly sure that the PS-X800 originally came with the XL-44L cartridge, and this cartridge weighs in at a claimed 6.2 grams. The original PS-X800 headshell alone weighs in at a claimed 7.2 grams.

Thanks....
With this "Biotracer smart" arm the only way to make sure everything works as it should is to use a mechanical / accurately calibrated electronic scale, provided the aftermarket headshell and cartridge is within the range of the various counterweight(s):

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/aco ... auge.shtml

and see if the adjusted tracking weight dialed in on the Sony agrees with readings of the electronic scales / gram weights.

Good luck.

Fred and played see-saw / teeter-totter with my QL-Y55F and AR scale with weights by turning the VTF dial...... :roll: :) and yes, caught the man in the mirror and amazed by the grey....

Professor Bizzt
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Post by Professor Bizzt » 02 Jul 2010 02:49

Thanks a million fscl!!

I kept thinking to myself: "Why is this darn service manual telling me to push the inward arm direction button?" "What on earth would that have to do with this procedure?"

I just knew there was something simple I was overlooking. I think this situation required me to get away from it for awhile so as to think more clearly, but even if I did that, I'm sure I would have needed your fresh perspective. I am really glad to have you guys to bounce challenges off of!! Thank you.

I will approach this procedure again tomorrow and post the results here so anyone else that comes up against this will avoid many hours of painful frustration.

P.S. I do have a quality 50 gram electronic scale that is checked for accuracy regularly.

Thanks again fscl...

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Post by Professor Bizzt » 03 Jul 2010 01:41

I revisited the Zero Balance Adjustment procedure today using the up que button instead of the left arm direction button.

Using the correct button is certainly a big part of the answer, but not the whole answer to this mind numbing calibration step for the Sony PS-X800.

There are still many questions to be answered due to the already discovered Japanese to English translation error and ambiguous service manual language.

1- Does this procedure require actually playing a record while monitoring TP8?

2- Is TP8 the correct test point?

3- What is the intended total headshell & cartridge weight before adding the 3 gram test weight for this test?

4- What about the weight distribution of the headshell/cartridge combo along the axis of the headshell?

5- Where along the axis of the headshell should the 3 gram test weight be placed?

6- Should the test weight be gently placed onto the headshell while playing a record, or should the arm be sent back to the arm rest so the Biotracer electronics can recalibrate to account for the extra 3 grams?

7- What should the stylus force (RV901) be set to during this test?

8- Should a digital scale be used instead of bothering with measuring TP8 voltage?


I tried using my digital weight scale to adjust RV112 for minimal weight difference between que down without the extra 3 gram weight and que up with the additional 3 gram weight only to discover lots of ambiguity in the results due to the setting of the stylus force (RV901) pot, the position of the 3 gram weight, the weight of the headshell/cartridge combo prior to the addition of the 3 gram weight, etc.

It sure would be wonderful to solve this mystery and be done with it.


Thanks, Professor Bizzt

fscl
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Post by fscl » 03 Jul 2010 16:24

Hmmmmm.......

Like I said intriguing..... :-k

Forget about the zero balance calibration at this time. Can you / have you returned RV 112 to the correct start position before adjusting? (or as close as possible?)

What happens if you just let the tt got through it's auto zero balance procedure, set the VTF and actually measure the VTF? Does it check out?

If the dial setting and the actual VTF on the electronic scale does not agree, then turn RV112 to see what effect that has on the VTF and rotate RV112 so that the dialed in number agrees with the electronic scale at both 3Gr and 1Gr and somehow in conjunction with RV 902 & 903.

CORRECT VTF is what is most important and as long as what is "dialed in" agrees with what weight / force the needle / LP is seeing / feeling, the tt is functioning correctly...... :-k :-k :-k

Good luck.

Fred and found that my VTF dial had dirty sections, worked them out and tested / coroborated balance from 0.25-->3.75Gr with the AR scale.....and this is what happens with you let engineers write service manuals without the help of a technical writer.....compound that with translation....#-o ](*,)

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Post by Professor Bizzt » 03 Jul 2010 17:50

Hi fscl,

Yes, you are correct that in most cases you can adjust RV112 so as to obtain actual tracking force that agrees with the stylus force (RV901) pot knob. This is true provided pots RV903 & RV901 are adjusted correctly for 2.5 gram & 1 gram respectively.

However unless the infamous RV112 is adjusted correctly, this accuracy can only be had for that particular headshell/cartridge combination weight. Anytime you switch out a headshell/cartridge, you would have to adjust RV901 to some readout that was inaccurate to achieve your desired tracking force.

The solution finally came to me, but is completely different than what is described under the official "Zero Balance Adjustment" procedure.

1- First make sure there are no problems with your tonearm's bearing friction.

2- Remove the platter.

3- Install the headshell/cartridge combo of your choice as long as the total mass of the combo is within the range stated in both user & service manuals (use one of the two Sony PS-X800 tonearm counterweights if necessary).

4- Set the stylus force knob to 1 gram (this 1 gram setting is probably non-critical and can be set to some other force if desired).

5- Use the left arm direction button to position the arm about 1/8" from the inside of the arm rest, but verify with certainty that the arm went through auto-calibration when you pushed the left arm button and the arm standby light blinked on & off.

6- Setup your electronic gram scale so that the stylus will touch down more or less in the middle of the scale.

7- Que down the arm, wait for 5 seconds for the reading to stabilize and write down this figure (never mind if this reading is not 1 gram).

8- Return the arm to the arm rest with the right arm direction button.

9- Place an additional 3 gram weight onto the outboard end of the headshell (placement is not very critical).

10- Use the left arm direction button to position the arm about 1/8" from the inside of the arm rest, but verify with certainty that the arm went through auto-calibration when you pushed the left arm button and the arm standby light blinked on & off.

11- Que down the arm, wait for 5 seconds for the reading to stabilize and write down this figure (never mind if this reading is not 1 gram).

12- Determine the average of these two weight figures and adjust RV112 for this average tracking force while the stylus is still touching the gram scale in step 11 above.

13- Repete steps 5-12 repeatedly untill both readings are the same to a reasonable degree (I achieved an accuracy of about .12 to .18 for both readings respectively).

After adjusting RV112, you will probably have to adjust both RV903 & RV902 and then to make matters worse, this might affect RV112 and therefore rechecking the Zero Balance would be wise.

I hope anyone reading this is begining to grasp how time consuming a full calibration can be on a PS-X800.

It is best to keep in mind that (as far as I know), RV112's function is to calibrate the circuit that is responsible for maintaining auto zero balance regardless of headshell/cartridge weight within the limitations stated in the manuals. If RV112 is not adjusted correctly, there will be inaccuracies in stylus force when changing out headshell/cartridge combos. In this scenario, the actual stylus force will not agree with RV901's indicated stylus force when changing out the headshell/cartridge to a different type.

Got to take a break now. Brain hurts!

Best wishes, Professor Bizzt

fscl
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Post by fscl » 03 Jul 2010 18:00

Professor Bizzt wrote:Hi fscl,
Got to take a break now. Brain hurts!
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

=D> =D>

WOW, glad you got it sorted.

I can't imagine this was missed / not in the service manual.....

Perhaps you can add this as a supplement to the Library for future PS-X800 owners.

Fred and congrats.

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Post by Professor Bizzt » 03 Jul 2010 18:26

Thanks for your help with this fscl. You provided a part of the answer as well.

When it comes to turntable repair, I am one stuborn & dedicated maniac. Actually more so than is benificial to me.


Best wishes, Professor Bizzt

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