Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

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Proaguru
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Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Proaguru » 25 Aug 2019 08:09

Hi.

I'm new to this forum and seeking expert advice re a problem with my 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.
I am a luthier living in NZ. My uncle gifted me this turntable in 1974 and it has run flawlessly ever since. It has been serviced by a local hifi expert over the years. i recently built a new plinth from purple heart to replace the old vinyl covered particle board one. It looks amazing and was playin well until recently when the motor began to run in reverse occasionally. After a time it would no longer run at all. I went online and found this forum which discussed the replacement of the motor capacitor. I ordered a replacement of precicely the same value as the original and soldered it into the power supply circuit. It made no difference whatsoever. Motor still wont spin without a kick start on the platter.

Can anyone advise me re these symptoms? I may need to replace the motor. They seem hard to come by in my part of the world.

Thank you

Harmen (Proaguru)

tlscapital
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by tlscapital » 25 Aug 2019 10:28

Proaguru wrote:
25 Aug 2019 08:09
Hi...

...Motor still wont spin without a kick start on the platter.

Can anyone advise me re these symptoms? I may need to replace the motor. They seem hard to come by in my part of the world.

Thank you

Harmen (Proaguru)
So you are saying that with a little push, the motor will run as it should ?

Have you clean (isopropyl) the pulley, belt and sub platter outer edge ?

Proaguru
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Proaguru » 25 Aug 2019 10:39

Hi.
Thanks for your response.
Yes I've had the platter off. The motor will not run even with the belt removed until I give the capstain pully a flick with my thumb and fore finger, in the right direction.

Proaguru
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Proaguru » 25 Aug 2019 10:42

I know it's tempting to ask the obvious questions but I've owned this turntable for most of my adult life and I know a significant amount about its (fairly simple) workings. This os a question about the motor about which I know very little.

tlscapital
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by tlscapital » 25 Aug 2019 12:07

Well if you feel handy enough you could try to do some surgery and dismantle the motor... You can find tutorials here and there on the net regarding that matter.

Or seek and buy a used spare 120/240 VAC Thorens motor for around USA $100. Only be cautious about the 50Hz and 60 Hz pulley variations in regard of your need.

Copperhead
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Copperhead » 25 Aug 2019 12:38

I wouldn't try taking the motor apart without re-lubing it first. Sometimes if the motor's bearing s are dry the motor will not spin or occasionally spin backwards.

No point in taking it apart, yet, or buying a replacement until you try oiling it.

tlscapital
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by tlscapital » 25 Aug 2019 12:53

Copperhead wrote:
25 Aug 2019 12:38
I wouldn't try taking the motor apart without re-lubing it first. Sometimes if the motor's bearing s are dry the motor will not spin or occasionally spin backwards.

No point in taking it apart, yet, or buying a replacement until you try oiling it.
Tha for that ! Did not know 'till now. Good tip indeed.

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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Copperhead » 25 Aug 2019 14:35

tlscapital wrote:
25 Aug 2019 12:53
Copperhead wrote:
25 Aug 2019 12:38
I wouldn't try taking the motor apart without re-lubing it first. Sometimes if the motor's bearing s are dry the motor will not spin or occasionally spin backwards.

No point in taking it apart, yet, or buying a replacement until you try oiling it.
Tha for that ! Did not know 'till now. Good tip indeed.
Some motors, when started under load, will sometimes spin backwards. The Connoisseur BD1/2, for example, did that until the motor was eventually fitted with a clutch of sorts. They initially tried dealing with the issue by fitting a little rubber knob on the switch. This would give it a push in the right direction on start up. The Revolver turntable also suffered from that, its motor hardly strong enough to move the platter.

The Thorens TD150/160 motors often run dry until they stop spinning, before they stop completely some I have owned spin backwards.

Proaguru
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Proaguru » 25 Aug 2019 18:01

Thanks everyone for your insights and suggestions.
Lubrication is a good idea. This little motor has literally done thousands of hours over the years with no lubrication at all.
I am leary of purchasing a second hand motor as it may have done as many, or more hours, as mine has done.

Proaguru
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Proaguru » 25 Aug 2019 18:36

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A picture is always good.

Proaguru
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Proaguru » 25 Aug 2019 18:38

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Proaguru
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Proaguru » 25 Aug 2019 18:40

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Proaguru
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Proaguru » 26 Aug 2019 10:12

Thanks for all the help folks.

Some more research revealed three basic problems with my motor.
The motor spindle had too much end play, up and down. I found the fix on this forum by making up a brass sleeve threaded internally for a grubscrew with a close fitting ball hearing. This assembly is now glued to the bottom of the motor with the motor spindle now supported by the ball bearing. It adjusts very finely and assists the motor to run more efficiently and with less noise. I lubricated the motor as well. Finally I discovered a careless mistake that I made when transferring the TT mechanism across to its new plinth. I fitted the phase and neutral wires on their opposite terminals.
Now the motor starts reliably and rotates in the correct direction with less noise than before.

Analogd
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Re: Problem with a 1972 Thorens TD 165 motor.

Post by Analogd » 26 Aug 2019 11:19

Hi there.
Pleased to hear you got it sorted.
I restore turntables as a hobby and specialise in vintage Thorens. I have never yet had to replace a motor on these as they are practically bullet proof. Problems such as you experienced are nearly always caused by wiring or phasing capacitor faults.
Cheers
Graham

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