My new alignment template generator

the thin end of the wedge
Sunwire
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 10 Jul 2019 18:26

Just to make it more complicated ☺, you could choose Stevenson but use "Typical" (matches actual records more closely), but set inner groove radius to the actual value you measured for your records. Choose the record with the smallest inner groove radius.

Sunwire
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 10 Jul 2019 18:30

The reason to choose Stevenson is that tracking inner grooves is the hardest job for the stylus. Stevenson minimizes tracking error at inner grooves.

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by derspankster » 10 Jul 2019 18:47

Sunwire wrote:
10 Jul 2019 18:30
The reason to choose Stevenson is that tracking inner grooves is the hardest job for the stylus. Stevenson minimizes tracking error at inner grooves.
I've been running Stevenson for about 3 or 4 months now for the first time in my life. I liked it immediately.

NOYB
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by NOYB » 11 Jul 2019 02:41

Printed the 3 templates and seems the EL is going to dictate using Stevenson. Cartridge adjustment slots are a couple mm too short to follow the Lofgren arc with standard groove radius. Could use custom groove radius but seems to go in opposite direction of what I need. I would what to increase the IGR a little (61) and decrease the OGR little (145). That seems to increase the EL though. I would need the EL to decrease.

The Stevenson / IEC S2P 210 has the EL at 226.237 and the cartridge is at the end of the adjustment slots (give or take a very small mm fraction for alignment adjustment).

It's interesting that the mfg stylus overhang spec calls for 50.5 mm. And their provided template is that and puts the cartridge about two thirds forward in the adjustment slots. But it seems like that would create an EL a couple mm shorter than their EL spec (225). Guessing that at that position the cartridge alignment is expected to be square to the headshell to be tangent with the groove. Would be interesting to have an arc template for that to see how well it tacks through the arc. What sort of differences would one expect with an alignment like that?

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by NOYB » 11 Jul 2019 02:49

For those that would like a custom arc protractor on a mirror, maybe give this a try.
Print the protractor on a transparency (thinnest you can find). Remove the platter mat and place the template on a mirror the same thickness as the mat.

If their is someone in your area that does glass/mirror work you might be able to have them cut a mirror for you with the spindle hole.

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by NOYB » 11 Jul 2019 02:52

The mechanical pencil lead taped to the front of cartridge works beautifully. Makes alignment so much easier than trying to line sight a cartridge that is obscured by the headshell.

Sunwire
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 11 Jul 2019 05:06

NOYB wrote:
11 Jul 2019 02:41
Printed the 3 templates and seems the EL is going to dictate using Stevenson. Cartridge adjustment slots are a couple mm too short to follow the Lofgren arc with standard groove radius. Could use custom groove radius but seems to go in opposite direction of what I need. I would what to increase the IGR a little (61) and decrease the OGR little (145). That seems to increase the EL though. I would need the EL to decrease.
NOYB - it appears you are understanding the tool pretty well.
Congratulations.

One comment:
I played around with your figures in the tool.
Decreasing the OGR to 145 actually decreases the EL, so there is no harm in using an OGR of 145.
Your logic regarding the IGR setting is solid. If you want to optimize things as much as possible, increase the IGR as much as you can while still having the adjustment range you need in the headshell. Decreasing the OGR to 145 gives you a little more room to play with the IGR.
I don't know what the offset angle of the headshell is, so I don't know how much you may need to twist the cartridge, if at all. But if you need to twist it, you'll need to leave some room in the headshell slots for that.

I wouldn't worry about the fact that Kenwood's alignment places the screws 2/3 of the way in the headshell slots. Every cartridge has a different distance from the cartridge screws to the stylus tip, so some cartridges might end up with screws near the tip of the headshell and others might be farther back to achieve the same alignment of the stylus.

NOYB
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by NOYB » 11 Jul 2019 05:30

Cartridge does have to be twisting inward a little. Not a good judge of eyeballing degrees. But it is enough to see.

Even 61 IGR and 145 OGR with Lofgren A results in 228.348 EL. That's 2 mm longer than the Stevenson A - IEC which is using all the length of the headshell adjustment.

Not worried about the mfg numbers/position. Just wonder how consistent the resulting alignment would be through it's arc and difference in sound. I'd guess the cartridge is expected to be square in the headshell using their 50.5 mm SOH alignment.

The manual doesn't give an offset spec.

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 11 Jul 2019 06:15

NOYB wrote:
11 Jul 2019 05:30


Even 61 IGR and 145 OGR with Lofgren A results in 228.348 EL. That's 2 mm longer than the Stevenson A - IEC which is using all the length of the headshell adjustment.

Yeah, I would go with Stevenson.
I mostly just wanted to note that using 145 OGR won't cause a problem.

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by NOYB » 11 Jul 2019 09:17

scho2684 wrote:
09 Jul 2017 19:53
Question for Conrad:
It might come in handy to print a few extra arcs on there, each 1mm seperated...
Like that you can see aprox the amount of distance you still have to move the cartridge...
Think that "parallel" arc lines would make it more difficult and more human error prone. Especially if they are all the same color (black). But then not everyone has a color printer. Maybe if a dashed line. Or maybe just a short, say maybe 10 to 20 mm, line near the edge and center. Where arc tracking is checked. Even so the distance it is off by is typically less than the amount the stylus needs to be moved. And the trial and error is simple since only dealing with one parameter at a time. Just don't chinch down the screws so it is easy to move. But tight enough that the cartridge won't slide around on its own.

I'm new at this protractor thing but so far I've not had any trouble without extra arc lines and think they would be more confusing than helpful.

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by NOYB » 11 Jul 2019 09:35

Sunwire wrote:
06 Oct 2017 18:07
A couple of tips from a happy user:
1) find an old LP you don't care about losing. If you don't have one, go to a thrift store and buy one. If their prices are too high (I pay 10 cents per LP) find one that has no sleeve or that is all scratched up. Tell them no one is ever going to buy this, how about if I give you a dime or a quarter or whatever you can talk them into.
2) tape the paper protractor onto your trashed LP, but before you secure it in position, hold the LP and protractor up to the light so the light is on the far side of the LP. Use the light to precisely align the hole in the LP with the spindle circle on the protractor. Then tape the protractor securely down on the LP.
Don't punch the hole in the protractor until you've got it aligned exactly and taped down where you want it. Now cut off whatever parts of the protractor are hanging off the edge of the LP.
If you have more than one turntable, or tonearm, or want to have protractors for more than one alignment, tape another protractor on the other side, or get more trashed LPs.

Using glossy photo paper for your printout helps make the protractor more durable.
No need to even punch out the center hole. Just let the spindle push the paper up out of the way.
If the unneeded parts are trimmed off probably 4 or more protractors could fit on each side of an LP.

Thanks for the tip. See a trip to Goodwill in my near future. Mounting to an LP should increase locating accuracy. But what I'd really like is a mirror with a spindle hole. Maybe a plastic or stainless steel mirror that could be drilled would work.

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by NOYB » 11 Jul 2019 11:42

Whew, made it all the way through this thread. Of course it's going to keep growing though.
Sunwire wrote:
11 Jul 2019 05:06
NOYB - it appears you are understanding the tool pretty well.
Congratulations.
I may not be the brightest bulb in the socket. But at least when the switch is flipped to the ON position I light up.
Yes I learned a lot in this thread. As is typically the case though. The more I learn the more I realize how stupid I am.

This is a very useful and easy to use tool. Conrad, you created a really nice and useful tool. Thank you.

Sunwire
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 11 Jul 2019 17:47

I think you could just print the protractor on transparency material, then put a regular rectangular mirror between the protractor and the platter.
I'm unclear about how a mirror would help, however.

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by chiz » 11 Jul 2019 19:14

Sunwire wrote:
11 Jul 2019 17:47
I'm unclear about how a mirror would help, however.
A mirror can help to avoid parallax error when determining the position of the cantilever in relation to the protractor grid.

Some previous discussion of this here:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... mit=Search

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by RobberOfBostonPlace » 21 Jul 2019 04:29

I have printed and tried out Hoffman's protractor several times to no avail. No matter what I do the protractor will not print to scale. I have a Fluance RT-85 turntable with an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge. Every single time I print one of these and I measure the mm lines, it always measures after the 200mm mark, but not quite 201. Right in the middle between 200 and 201. I have an Epson XP-4100 series printer and a HP Deskjet 1010 printer. Both are pretty cheap. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

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