New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

the thin end of the wedge
patient_ot
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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by patient_ot » 19 Apr 2019 15:13

The trouble with measuring crosstalk/stereo separation is that different test records may give wildly different results. For any AT cartridge, you would really need to know what test record they used to even get close to reproducing their results. Since AT is a Japanese company I would assume they used their own test LP or maybe one of the Denon broadcast LPs or something similar.

See here:

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=974192

The other thing is you need to be able to filter out any noise that may be in your system. I figured out that some type of electrical noise (possibly from wall wart power supplies, old wiring in my building, etc.) was making its way into my system which is why I gave up on trying to do X-talk measurements for the time being until I pinpoint the source and eliminate it.

felixbo
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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by felixbo » 19 Apr 2019 19:02

Hi,
won´t spam this thread. Getting a good test record and making good measurement is sometimes a problem. I own different records and there are differences, yes. Witch one is the only right one? I don´t know. Comparing an old DIN 45541 (my favorit) to HFN 001 and JVC TRS 1003 produces the same results +-1dB relating to cannel seperation at 1kHz. So I think thats ok. Measurements are often affected by ground loops. To avoid this I use a battery powered laptop measuring system. This lowers the ground floor about 20dB. Enough off topic...

Cheers Felix

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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by mamakasou » 25 Apr 2019 00:06

Just got my hands on an AT VM95C.
I paid 42 euro for it.

First impressions are very positive.
This one sounds impressive!

Enough clarity, detail and low end, without sounding 'artificial' or bloated.
Reminds me quite a bit of my AT91 (close relative to the venerable AT3600L).
A cartridge that many of us have praised for its beautiful tonality and overall performance.
Not to mention the ridiculously low price..

I will have to run some more tests and auditions with it of course.
Also make a direct comparison with the AT91.

But for now, I just pleased by what i hear.

patient_ot
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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by patient_ot » 29 Apr 2019 23:43

A bit of an update on the AT VM95ML. I'm starting to experiment with some tests using the Ortofon Test LP. This LP has some tests that my CBS STR100 does not have.

To start with, I tested crosstalk (stereo separation) between the channels. For this I used the 1k test tones on the LP and then measured in Audacity after applying some noise filters.

The average value I'm getting is 27dB between the two channels.

So it would appear the cartridge meets or exceeds spec (23dB). Keep in mind you will probably get different results using different test LPs.

The difference in crosstalk between the two channels is around 1dB, give or take. This is with the stock AT headshell that came with the cartridge and no azimuth adjustment whatsoever.

When I have time I will run some tracking ability tests and report the results.

smee4
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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by smee4 » 29 Apr 2019 23:54

That's great. We figured the figures were conservative. Probably varies a bit.

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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by Sunwire » 30 Apr 2019 02:07

patient_ot wrote:
29 Apr 2019 23:43


The average value I'm getting is 27dB between the two channels.

So it would appear the cartridge meets or exceeds spec (23dB). Keep in mind you will probably get different results using different test LPs.
Very nice result.

I'm curious to know if you've measured any other cartridges and what results you got.

I don't put much emphasis on the absolute value of these cartridge specifications or test results. It only becomes meaningful when you compare the results of different cartridges.
In other words, if you got a 27 dB result from the VM95, I'd expect even better results from one of the VM5xx, VM6xx, or VM7xx cartridges. Same with the earlier AT120, AT150, AT160 cartridges.
If you have any other AT cartridges, I'd be super interested to know how they measure in comparison to the VM95.

Although I have never done any crosstalk or separation measurements, I've found that the published specifications of the various AT cartridges maps very reliably to the sound quality of the different models, as I experience it. The better the specs, the better they sound.

patient_ot
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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by patient_ot » 30 Apr 2019 04:41

Sunwire wrote:
30 Apr 2019 02:07
patient_ot wrote:
29 Apr 2019 23:43


The average value I'm getting is 27dB between the two channels.

So it would appear the cartridge meets or exceeds spec (23dB). Keep in mind you will probably get different results using different test LPs.
Very nice result.

I'm curious to know if you've measured any other cartridges and what results you got.

I don't put much emphasis on the absolute value of these cartridge specifications or test results. It only becomes meaningful when you compare the results of different cartridges.
In other words, if you got a 27 dB result from the VM95, I'd expect even better results from one of the VM5xx, VM6xx, or VM7xx cartridges. Same with the earlier AT120, AT150, AT160 cartridges.
If you have any other AT cartridges, I'd be super interested to know how they measure in comparison to the VM95.

Although I have never done any crosstalk or separation measurements, I've found that the published specifications of the various AT cartridges maps very reliably to the sound quality of the different models, as I experience it. The better the specs, the better they sound.

This is the first crosstalk test I've done with the Ortofon test record. I do have other cartridges I can test, though I probably won't measure most of them. The problem is they all have way more hours on them than the VM95ML, which is the newest cartridge I have.

And I'm not going to argue that the higher spec AT cartridges are not better than the VM95 series. That is obvious IMHO. The higher spec bodies have a center shield plate to separate the coils. You don't get that in the VM95 series.

The main reason I am using the VM95ML on my main deck over something like the 540 or 740ML cartridges is due to the difference in compliance. They are very different.

I can use the VM95ML on my 21-23g mass tonearm and get a 9hz resonance (tested). Can't do that with the 540 or 740. Those carts need a lighter arm according to testing that has been done by others. Specs also give a clue.

elektronikfreak
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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by elektronikfreak » 07 Jul 2019 19:08

I have planned to buy a AT-VM95EN to my old Technics SL1200 Mk2. Do you think this will be a good choice for around €120/£100?

Bye from Sweden.

mamakasou
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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by mamakasou » 07 Jul 2019 19:22

Yes.
Very good.
I have an Audio Technica AT-VM95E and performs really nice.

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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by cafe latte » 07 Jul 2019 22:44

elektronikfreak wrote:
07 Jul 2019 19:08
I have planned to buy a AT-VM95EN to my old Technics SL1200 Mk2. Do you think this will be a good choice for around €120/£100?

Bye from Sweden.
Why not stretch to the ml for a few euros more? Your turntable will work well with far far far more expensive carts. The ATvm95ml is a total bargain.
Chris

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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by cafe latte » 07 Jul 2019 22:48

patient_ot wrote:
30 Apr 2019 04:41
Sunwire wrote:
30 Apr 2019 02:07
patient_ot wrote:
29 Apr 2019 23:43


The average value I'm getting is 27dB between the two channels.

So it would appear the cartridge meets or exceeds spec (23dB). Keep in mind you will probably get different results using different test LPs.
Very nice result.

I'm curious to know if you've measured any other cartridges and what results you got.

I don't put much emphasis on the absolute value of these cartridge specifications or test results. It only becomes meaningful when you compare the results of different cartridges.
In other words, if you got a 27 dB result from the VM95, I'd expect even better results from one of the VM5xx, VM6xx, or VM7xx cartridges. Same with the earlier AT120, AT150, AT160 cartridges.
If you have any other AT cartridges, I'd be super interested to know how they measure in comparison to the VM95.

Although I have never done any crosstalk or separation measurements, I've found that the published specifications of the various AT cartridges maps very reliably to the sound quality of the different models, as I experience it. The better the specs, the better they sound.

This is the first crosstalk test I've done with the Ortofon test record. I do have other cartridges I can test, though I probably won't measure most of them. The problem is they all have way more hours on them than the VM95ML, which is the newest cartridge I have.

And I'm not going to argue that the higher spec AT cartridges are not better than the VM95 series. That is obvious IMHO. The higher spec bodies have a center shield plate to separate the coils. You don't get that in the VM95 series.

The main reason I am using the VM95ML on my main deck over something like the 540 or 740ML cartridges is due to the difference in compliance. They are very different.

I can use the VM95ML on my 21-23g mass tonearm and get a 9hz resonance (tested). Can't do that with the 540 or 740. Those carts need a lighter arm according to testing that has been done by others. Specs also give a clue.
I would be very curious to know differences between frequency plots and cross talk between old body and new, using a new ml stylus on both, is it something you can do?
Chris

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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by Issuesman666 » 07 Jul 2019 23:37

What are the advantages of the 540 ML versus the ATvm95ml?

cafe latte
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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by cafe latte » 07 Jul 2019 23:41

Nigel Gomez wrote:
07 Jul 2019 23:37
What are the advantages of the 540 ML versus the ATvm95ml?
Very little I think just internal shielding between the coils which will give slightly less cross talk. As humans we can only determine around 20db of stereo separation and people are measuring 25-27 on the vm range. If the 540ml has more due to the shield, can we hear it anyway?
Chris

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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by BMRR » 08 Jul 2019 14:24

The 540 is also a four coil generator vs. two coil for the 95, and the 540 has laminated cores vs. unlaminated for the 95. Last but not least they use higher quality coil wire in the 540.

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Re: New Audio Technica VM95 Series - Next Generation of the AT95

Post by chiz » 08 Jul 2019 19:39

Also the 540 has a tapered cantilever according to this:

https://eu.audio-technica.com/resources ... 0(web).pdf

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