An article on planned obsolescence...

anything and nothing
VinyldechezPierre
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 31 May 2019 18:05

vinyl master wrote:
28 May 2019 02:28
Oh, I try not to get TOO discouraged, guys...And you're right...Of course, I HAD to rant for a minute...
Well, keep on ranting. Someone may actually listen to you and change their way... But it also helps to be politically active. There are many ways to do that but one must first inform oneself because it is so very easy to think stupid.

An example of that is the people who keep talking about the end of the world if we don't change our stupid ways. They are basically telling us we are killing the planet and that we won't survive a dead planet. Although that second half would be true, the whole idea is laughable. The planet (earth) will be here long after we've killed ourselves.

Earth's history has already shown us this is true, with the dinosaurs. Some extremely violent and destructive event happened that wiped out 99% of animal life. Whatever actually happened, earth is still around. It even managed to create us. And two aspects of dinosaurs to think about:
Compared to a dinosaur, the human animal is as fragile as a card castle;
The human animal is the only one I know of that is self-destructive.

Would love to keep talking about this but I would hate to see the thread closed for a "too" political reason. Although it will be hard to get back to the subject without getting into political discourse again.

But let's try.

Planned obsolescence was an obvious next step for corporations when they had saturated the market with their products. How else to sell more? At the same time, everything is being done to make you believe that things can't be repaired anymore. Then, it cannot be repaired because we haven't taught anyone how to do the repairs...

Why should anyone care about new generations of repair techs when the corporations don't want anything to be repaired?

vinyl master
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by vinyl master » 01 Jun 2019 06:44

VinyldechezPierre wrote:
31 May 2019 18:05

Why should anyone care about new generations of repair techs when the corporations don't want anything to be repaired?
Pretty sad, if you ask me...But I do wonder about a lot of things...Here's another interesting article I read today...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bj9y ... ket-newtab

A very curious new world, indeed... :-k

Definitely off topic, as it should be, but fascinating reading nonetheless! What they're (partly) advocating is the exact opposite of saturating the market with more junk!

joedisco
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by joedisco » 01 Jun 2019 08:45

Interesting topic.
I wonder if companies could survive if products were built to last??
I think at the core of the issue is that private companies are not charitys. They are here to make as much money as possible.
Can you think of a private company that says "Oh, we are already happy with the amount of money we are making right now, no need for more"

"A product that refuses to wear out is a tragedy for business"

I very much dislike the electronic market today. Wether you buy a laptop, cell phone or a simple all-in-one mini audio system, they will last about 3-5 years if you are lucky.

I value reliability, long lasting products.

There used to be some sense of pride when owning good quality long lasting stuff.

I highly recommend watching the following documentary:

https://vimeo.com/55490083

(enjoy!.... or cry!)

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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by scrapjack+ » 01 Jun 2019 18:54

I have worked on machines from the 50's and some of them you could just tell they were built to be repaired, I have also looked at tree different models of broken Keurigs and found none of them could be fully dismantled without a magic screw driver, or some kind of robot. At least Sony still seems to label where the screws are on their electronics with arrows, even if there are "no user serviceable parts".

I have a 60's radio with two fuses, I assume to be the fast and slow burn setup that all good electronics should have, fitted into holders so they can be easily replaced, instead of being soldered in. I'm always pleasantly suprised when modern electronics have one fuse.

Apple has been sued for designing their devices to fail after a period of time, and has been found to place glitches in phone OS updates that sabotage older phones while leaving new models unaffected. The original Xbox was bios locked to a hard drive that would fail under normal use so that they had to be modded or replaced, if the leaking capacitor acid didn't eat through the circuit board traces first. I think XP 64bit was one of the best OS's Microsoft ever made,* but by them and other companies, particularly those that make drivers, stopping support, it is forced to die, along with all the items(lots of console gaming peripherals) that do not support a newer OS. With each new OS they restrict what we can do to our own install more and more. Have you ever heard of Hp and Lenovo's BIOS whitelist, they locked the computers so that you could only install the upgrades they approved, upon the initial release of the laptops.These days they can kill our devices with software updates, or just block their compatibility with the next version.


In addition to the regular planed obsolescence, it seems allot of areas have lost their middle ground. There is a cheap garbage option that everyone seems to have, and a super expensive professional version that no one has, and nothing in between. This leaves us questioning whether allot of things are even worth considering their repair.

* I grew up with win95, enjoyed 98SE, use DOS to repair modern and old pc's, run win7, and have setup or repaired newer OS systems. I think there are only 4 real improvements to the Microsoft operating systems since xp. I have tried Mac, and IOS, but was consistently annoyed.

vinyl master
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by vinyl master » 01 Jun 2019 20:03

I miss XP and even Windows 7, but I guess they had to change things for our own (or their own) good, whichever comes first! :evil:

And everyone goes along with these new updates, even though user-friendliness is not high on the priority list...Why can't they just listen to actual user complaints and make BETTER products instead of new versions with glitches??? Windows 10 has been OK, but it didn't start out that way and there are still some people who wished they had one of their older versions back again! It's as if Microsoft just wants to keep pushing progress along, whether it's good or bad, instead of sticking to what works and concentrating on that!

By the way, for my own sanity, I've never owned an IPhone and continue to love my old flip phone...Call me a troglodyte if you will, but I've never been happier NOT to have technology at my beck and call every waking moment!

My local columnist Mitch Albom agrees with me, too! :)

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/colu ... 624397002/

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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by AgedAngel » 02 Jun 2019 04:48

I too am a Windows 7 holdout. Windows 10 seemed to be a solution in search of a problem...though it did allow MS to shift to a subscription model for updates and tech support so as to keep the money rolling in. Downstairs, I have a Win7 and a WinXP machine hooked up to a dual input monitor. There are certain programs I depend upon that simply won't run on Win7. Right now, I'm writing on a DELL laptop running Win7. It gets the job done. I can handle pretty much everything else on an Android tablet, though I stay away from those data-collecting apps and just use a freeware browser that I did NOT get from Google Play (which I have disabled on my tablet). Next thing you know, those creeps will want to know my bra size (if they don't already.)

Actually, I wanted to tell you all about a pleasant surprise I had from a company called OPPO. In 2010, I bought a very nice DVD/Blu-Ray player from them. The thing is region free, built like a tank, and produces a 1080p image upscaled to 4K that you can pretty much step into, Looking Glass style. A couple of years ago, though, it went on the fritz, and the problems got worse and worse until the unit became nonfunctional. Figuring "planned obsolescence", I purchased a new Samsung unit. To my dismay, it was light as a feather, felt cheaply made, and absolutely screamed "I'll die on you after two years...and no serviceable parts inside!"

I went back to OPPO, contacted their service department, and found that they have a whole system for painless repair of their older models. For a hundred bucks, they replaced parts, fixed everything, updated the firmware, and shipped the unit back to me. Works fine now. Beautiful picture. The hardest part was finding a good box to ship the player to them.

The Samsung went back to the store.

I had a similar experience with our TiVo: the fan went out. I bought a replacement fan, watched the YouTube video, and did the fix in about a half hour. Yeah, I needed some weird Torx wrenches, but the repair kit actually came with them. And WeaKnees, the TiVo repair center, offers much the same kind of painless send in-repair-ship back service as OPPO in case the unit needs to come back to the shop. So some companies are listening.

I noticed the Keurig mention upthread. Yeah, we've got one. I use it for emergency caffeine fixes. Mainly, I use a vintage Chemex, with a 13 cup, Pyrex brewer that will probably still be around when the cockroaches are building their first freeway.

I admit that I'm rather of two minds about the environmental damage. Part of me is horrified, and my instinct is to save the earth, even though the anti-environment crowd has come to approaching their agenda with religious fervor. I fear we'll just have a stalemate in this department, and that we'll continue as we have. The other part of me is looking at that last statement and going "Yeah! Hurry up and get it over with! The earth will continue, and eventually recover, but all these icky, thoughtless, polluting human beings won't be around to mess things up anymore!"

A side note: we have vast Sargasso Seas of plastic refuse floating in all the oceans now. Some companies are trying to harvest them, but I'm afraid that'll turn out to be a losing battle. What's likely to happen, I think (or wonder), is that some enterprising bacteria is going to figure out how to eat the stuff. That would be very nice, but the problem is, it wouldn't stay in the ocean: it would mutate, migrate to the land, and start eating our cell phones and everything else. We'd be back to wood, metal, and glass. Life would get interesting, to be sure.

Apologies for the long post: it's nice to have a chance to talk to adults for a change. And I'm sorry I haven't been around for a while. Life got depressing. So much so that I actually lost interest in music. Trying to get back to listening now.

All best to everyone,

AA

vinyl master
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by vinyl master » 02 Jun 2019 05:24

Don't get depressed, Aged Angel...I've had bouts of it at times, too, but it was MUSIC that got me out of it! Sometimes, it's the only thing! In fact, I look at this guy who I recently discovered...Music literally SAVED his life and his choice of a Donny Hathaway/Leon Russell standard shows that some things like timeless music never go out of style! :)



I will warn you...Even the most hardened individual won't be able to stop the tears after hearing his story and listening to him sing... :cry:

In any case, one can trade in or trash all the old technology they want, but if you think I will ever trash my favorite records, you've got another thing coming! Good music is NEVER obsolete AND if you want to see how music can actually change the world, I've delved in a little deeper with the words and lyrics here...

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 1&t=110260

I've gone through some rough times, as have many others, but knowing that others have felt as I do or did and have expressed their sentiments in song...Well, that buoys me to know that I'm not alone! Maybe if you have some favorites of your own, feel free to share them on my thread! :)

scrapjack+
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by scrapjack+ » 02 Jun 2019 06:04

AgedAngel wrote:
02 Jun 2019 04:48

A side note: we have vast Sargasso Seas of plastic refuse floating in all the oceans now. Some companies are trying to harvest them, but I'm afraid that'll turn out to be a losing battle. What's likely to happen, I think (or wonder), is that some enterprising bacteria is going to figure out how to eat the stuff. That would be very nice, but the problem is, it wouldn't stay in the ocean: it would mutate, migrate to the land, and start eating our cell phones and everything else. We'd be back to wood, metal, and glass. Life would get interesting, to be sure.

Apologies for the long post: it's nice to have a chance to talk to adults for a change. And I'm sorry I haven't been around for a while. Life got depressing. So much so that I actually lost interest in music. Trying to get back to listening now.

All best to everyone,

AA
You might not be far off with that doomsday hypothesis. We've known about a fungus that evolved around Chernobyl that feed on the lingering gamma radiation since the early 2000's. The Wiki article is surprisingly brief, then again, it is a new species, both evolutionarily, and in terms of being discovered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus

Also, the "see also" just informed me that there is nylon eating bacteria, so that's pretty close to what you suggested. I suspect most people around here won't be too worried until a PVC eating bacteria is announced, then there'll be all sorts of clean room record storage discussions suddenly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

vinyl master
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by vinyl master » 02 Jun 2019 06:15

Man, when you think about it, there's not a horror story in the world that can compete with the reality of the problems we face! You can't make this stuff up!

Still, regarding that garbage patch, I hope this guy can do what others can't...



vinyl master
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by vinyl master » 02 Jun 2019 06:36

Since there is SO much plastic junk out there, I just signed this petition...Biodegradeable, recyclable plastics should be EVERYONE'S concern...I mean, I'll save the radios, records and record players from the landfills, but there is SO much more plastic out there (I'm really annoyed with products that come wrapped in several layers of plastic packaging and that hard plastic packaging on various products that needs a pair of scissors or a knife to open, but that's a rant for another time!) that it seems ridiculous that more companies can't just use better materials when making products that won't harm the environment...If we don't care, who will? :-k

https://www.change.org/p/amazon-ceo-jef ... rters_page

It's high time something got done about it and I've had just about enough of this "planned obsolescence" and "corporate apathy"...How about you guys??? :?

I'm sure we all can do something to stem the tide a bit...We're already recyclers, if you count the used vinyl anyway... :wink:

derspankster
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by derspankster » 02 Jun 2019 16:15

We have a very good recycling program in our city. But, it's voluntary. The city provides bins and pickup as part of the trash pickup. Metals, plastics, paper, cardboard, and glass all can be recycled by residents. It is amazing how little goes into our actual "trash" can these days.

Unfortunately, for those that do not sort their recycled items, everything goes into the trash. Residents are responsible for their own sorting.

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 11 Jun 2019 18:52

vinyl master wrote:
01 Jun 2019 06:44
VinyldechezPierre wrote:
31 May 2019 18:05

Why should anyone care about new generations of repair techs when the corporations don't want anything to be repaired?
Pretty sad, if you ask me...
But true. Here in France anyhow; and I'd be surprised if it was any/much different anywhere else. Talking from experience here.

I thought about going back to school when I saw a program for "repair techs"; talked to a friend about my age who used to be one and he told me to forget it because these programs only teach how to change cards, not repair them; and, it seems, you wouldn't even learn to really figure out if the card needs to be changed or not...

My dad had problems with his 2 and 1/2 year old dishwasher (minimum warranty period here is 2 years :D and I buy a new coffee machine every 2 and 1/2 years :evil: ). Am not going to tell you the different excuses that he was given for each new visit because the last one didn't fix the problem but I blew up at the sixth one and got him a new one for 1/3 the price of new...

Problem with that is that most people don't dare to raise hell so that the corporations keep on going the same way: Fook the customer!

Anyway, some interesting thoughts in the different responses since I last managed to get here. Now, a few ideas of mine in reaction.

We have a serious problem with the environment and if we don't make serious/major changes today, we're dead. The big question is when, exactly? To be honest, I didn't think I would see the end of humanity but I recently read an article that was talking about, possibly, 2050!

Yes, only 31 years away. And I may still be alive to see it if I last as long as my dad... Serious article by the way, not from some crazy church.


More and more companies are offering lifetime warranties. Not all equal so be careful what you buy for that reason. Still, that shows not all companies are intent on screwing us. Now, of course, that comes at a price so that some shoppers will not be so willing to get on board (Wally World anyone?). I mean, come on, you can't expect a $10 DVD player to have a lifetime warranty...

Companies can survive making way less money than they do today. In France today, the difference between the lowest salaries (minimum wage) and the highest (the big boss) is 300X. Not only is this ridiculous but the famous trickle-down theory is total BS. Poor people spend what they have, not rich people. We need to espouse the trickle-up theory. :roll:

Corporations whose only intent is to make money for its shareholders, on the other hand, cannot survive. But who cares? They are the ones messing it all up for us. They function on the greed principle with not a care in the world how it affects anyone else.

What is funny is that when the rich get scammed, there is a reaction. See the Madoff or the Theranos scandals. When middle class (shrinking every day) or the lower class get scammed, good luck getting anywhere.


Do you own any stock? Think about what that means. You're killing the possible future of your children and grandchildren.

rewfew
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by rewfew » 13 Jun 2019 16:44

Most of what's being discussed here is a byproduct of economic orthodoxy. Neoliberal economics has become the defacto standard which by the world's economies are run. With results to environmental and social well being we're expressing concern for. A heterodox economic offshoot that is at the heart of the Green New Deal, known as Modern Monetary Theory. Applies the fact that a sovereign currency issuer can afford to issue debt more so than austerity promoters believe. It's regarded currently as a heretic theory by the entrenched orthodoxy, but gaining popularity by progressive's in it's ability to uncover the hypocrisy loaded values required to keep governing in entrenched capitalistic corporate welfare. Another economic division endorses a Marxian form of expression to the top down way of capitalism by promoting "Worker Cooperative's". Whereby corporations replace ceo's and board of directors with worker representatives. The Mondragon corporation in Spain has operated in this fashion since the 1950's.
What these examples represent is a way to improve governments and corporations responding to the broader needs of the masses in society's, rather than waiting for the benefits of the few to spread their good fortune and benevolence to the rest of us. Because, otherwise, like Lennon sang, the way thing's are going, their going to crucify me.

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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by rvb » 14 Jun 2019 11:46

But something happened since. Now, when I press the button to launch the VIA dock, access to YouTube and Amazon Prime has been lost, the web browser has disappeared, and the “Widget Gallery” is entirely gone. They were, I imagine, removed during some update when I wasn’t paying attention. We still use Netflix, but know its days are numbered too. Sure, there are backwards-compatible doohickeys like Apple TV or Roku that we could hook up to our television, but those seem like Scotch tape on a broken rearview mirror. It’ll hold, but for how long?

My grandma’s old antenna TV sat on a rolling cart for decades. Our “smart” TV will last a portion of that time. This is the way the smart home ends: not with a bang, but with obsolescence.


Same issue here, so terrible.

vinyl master
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Re: An article on planned obsolescence...

Post by vinyl master » 05 Jul 2019 15:21

Back to the issue at hand, I guess they don't want us fixing our cars, either, in some areas, according to this article I recently read...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/sa ... ailsignout

THAT is, as the Brits might say...a.) hogwash, b.) rubbish and/or c.) a load of codswallop! :evil:

Or as we like to say here...INSANITY!! :harhar:

What do they expect??? For people to just buy a brand new vehicle, every time their trusty chariot breaks down??? :?

If that were the case, we wouldn't hear stories like this!! :)

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/g ... ived-cars/
https://www.allpar.com/trucks/dodge/ray-van.html
https://www.allpar.com/old/high-miles/vaillancourt.php

Thank God for Popular Mechanics, or no one would fix ANYTHING!! ](*,)