some insight into who actually built your equipment

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AsOriginallyRecorded
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some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 12 Jun 2019 06:42

http://www.thevintageknob.org/tvk_talk/ ... 570&t=2395

I posted this excellent article a couple of years ago, and some recent dialogue on the subject of true origins of some turntables has motivated me to re-post as a link. This is a fine piece of informative reading and nearly a bible for tracking many pieces of equipment's origin. Of particular note are the "T-tags" that exist on the plate on the back of virtually every Japanese manufactured piece of audio equipment. Although the label may display the name of a recognized brand name, it is the T-tag that tells exactly who manufactured the unit. Very insightful, revealing, and occasionally surprising and humbling. A must read for those with an inquiring mind, worthy of a sticky perhaps? Enjoy.... 8)

rewfew
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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by rewfew » 12 Jun 2019 15:43

Not unlike the automotive industry that uses a myriad of contractors, subcontractors for their products. Some with infamous reputation. Takata for instance. Other than purveyors of minutia for information. Seems an exercise only for that purpose. Which is A-OK if your inclined. I'd be more interested in the history of the Japanese audio industry and the principal's involved in making it the force it became.

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by fscl » 12 Jun 2019 16:29

Very interesting and great link !

Knowing penchant for quality by the Japanese, it appears the domestic customer could basically trace / track origin DNA

Wondering if the units for export followed a less sinuous birthing being relegated to particular sub-contractor / sub-sub-contractor....... :-k

Fascinating indeed, thanks !

Fred

billshurv
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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by billshurv » 12 Jun 2019 22:38

Not convinced I understand the point of this. Anyone who has been involved in manufacturing knows that most firms sub out some part of the work. It's who designed it that matters, not who assembled it.

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by tlscapital » 13 Jun 2019 09:00

fscl wrote:
12 Jun 2019 16:29
Very interesting and great link !

Knowing penchant for quality by the Japanese, it appears the domestic customer could basically trace / track origin DNA

Wondering if the units for export followed a less sinuous birthing being relegated to particular sub-contractor / sub-sub-contractor....... :-k

Fascinating indeed, thanks !

Fred
I've always understood that some Japanese companies (the same happens in other nationalistic cultures) filled the local market with gear build as they should where they intentionally dissed down their assembled parts for 'export'.

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by fscl » 13 Jun 2019 18:33

tlscapital wrote:
13 Jun 2019 09:00
I've always understood that some Japanese companies (the same happens in other nationalistic cultures) filled the local market with gear build as they should where they intentionally dissed down their assembled parts for 'export'.
Been disappointed over the years, when traveling, after spying gear available in Japan and waiting for it to appear in the US with English instructions, North American electrical supplies and local warranties...... :(

Lots of TOTL equipment never made it from country of origin....... :?

Fred

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by billshurv » 13 Jun 2019 21:06

tlscapital wrote:
13 Jun 2019 09:00

I've always understood that some Japanese companies (the same happens in other nationalistic cultures) filled the local market with gear build as they should where they intentionally dissed down their assembled parts for 'export'.
I suspect it is a LOT more complicated than that. Not least that export markets may not have actually appreciated the more expensive models. UK for example there was a lot of snobbery against DD tables and so other than broadcasters some of the top turntables were not offered here as they wouldn't sell.

A large corporation will do market research on what will sell and what won't and tailor a product to that market.

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by tlscapital » 14 Jun 2019 08:24

billshurv wrote:
13 Jun 2019 21:06
I suspect it is a LOT more complicated than that. Not least that export markets may not have actually appreciated the more expensive models.
It's more complicated than that evidently it can be, is or just not. Rule of thumb can't drown the fish. Follow the OP presenting the link showing same brands and models of gear but with different manufactured parts (PSU) shows just that.

So referring to different availability of models in regards of the "export" market is another matter. That I hear, indeed some model were not available for export. That is another subject on it's own. But not true only for the Japanese corporation then.
billshurv wrote:
13 Jun 2019 21:06
UK for example there was a lot of snobbery against DD tables and so other than broadcasters some of the top turntables were not offered here as they wouldn't sell.A large corporation will do market research on what will sell and what won't and tailor a product to that market.
I read a lot on that matter giving that argument (belt drive bashers :mrgreen: ) and don't deny that this actually orientated the UK market and trends some. And we know how British audiophiles take pride in their British brands...

And I doubt that those in quest of the new Japanese DD turntable back then in the seventies were not allowed to purchase them anyhow as mistreated fellow man and kindred. The "rarer" stuffs do requires devotions all the way.
billshurv wrote:
13 Jun 2019 21:06
A large corporation will do market research on what will sell and what won't and tailor a product to that market.
I never like those market orientation exceptions for 'export' and/or 'import'. We suffer enough with tailor made food... And this has nothing to do with local 'roots', 'culture', traditions' and 'habits'. It's merely commercialist 'left field' mental junk ;)

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by billshurv » 14 Jun 2019 21:48

tlscapital wrote:
14 Jun 2019 08:24
Rule of thumb can't drown the fish. Follow the OP presenting the link showing same brands and models of gear but with different manufactured parts (PSU) shows just that.
You have to sell an amplifier in Japan (110v one set of safety regs) in europe (220V another set of safety regs) and USA (110V a 3rd set of safety regs). back then universal switching supplies as we know today were not available so why not sub out each country unit to a different supplier (brother/uncle/whatever)? All very normal when you produce multiple SKUs.
I read a lot on that matter giving that argument (belt drive bashers :mrgreen: ) and don't deny that this actually orientated the UK market and trends some. And we know how British audiophiles take pride in their British brands...

And I doubt that those in quest of the new Japanese DD turntable back then in the seventies were not allowed to purchase them anyhow as mistreated fellow man and kindred. The "rarer" stuffs do requires devotions all the way.
IMO Ivor and Julian did a lot of damage. more than they did good. Good stuff was passed over as it had too many knobs on it!


I never like those market orientation exceptions for 'export' and/or 'import'. We suffer enough with tailor made food... And this has nothing to do with local 'roots', 'culture', traditions' and 'habits'. It's merely commercialist 'left field' mental junk ;)
Note that neither of us were the 'target market' for this stuff anyway!

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by tlscapital » 15 Jun 2019 17:47

billshurv wrote:
14 Jun 2019 21:48
You have to sell an amplifier in Japan (110v one set of safety regs) in europe (220V another set of safety regs) and USA (110V a 3rd set of safety regs). back then universal switching supplies as we know today were not available so why not sub out each country unit to a different supplier (brother/uncle/whatever)? All very normal when you produce multiple SKUs.
But I've seen many of those voltage 'switch' on many of those 'higher-end' Japanese gear from the seventies... Now was it only post 1975 or some other times after... ? And I've had even older European gear with such a voltage 'switch'.

Otherwise yes, I get your point there and it's 'logical' in that regard. Still it is my understanding that 'export' products (apples and oranges as well LOL !) don't always get the same "quality" requirements. More so in some countries than others.

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by billshurv » 16 Jun 2019 00:09

You missed my point. Multiple taps are one thing, safety regs are another. My 1965 vintage radford has multiple voltage capability. These days you can affordably make a single power supply that could autoswitch any voltage and meet all the safety specs in whichever country you sell it it. Back then it was not necessarily so. If you are making lots of something then multiple sourcing makes sense and why not source by destination region?

As for 'export' models. Import duties at the time probably also mattered. If the local competition product was £150 and your domestic model was £200 due to duties etc you would do a lower cost model to compete. Simple business how ever much you personally don't like it. There may have been additional 'special quality' models in the domestic market that were considered way to expensive for the heathens in europe. Most hifi buyers chose on price. maybe 5% on quality.

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Re: some insight into who actually built your equipment

Post by dysmike » 16 Jun 2019 01:07

SMPS (switched-mode power supply) and a switched linear supply capable of both 110 and 220 input voltage are totally different anyway.

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