Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

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smee4
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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by smee4 » 08 Apr 2019 02:22

Jmoog wrote:
08 Apr 2019 02:07
Pure_brew wrote:
07 Apr 2019 16:38
The ear will pick up pitch variations on sustained notes, especially on piano. You won't notice it much on vocals because of how or ears work. I don't have a more scientific explanation- but what you describe is normal.
This is exactly what I'm hearing. Not constantly but at certain times it's unmistakable.

I'm tracking the 95E at 2 grams. I was wondering if I should ease up the tracking force a bit to see if that relieves the pitch issue but it sounds great at 2 grams so I've left it that way.

I'm leaning towards that it may be a case of the spindle being too thin and there being too much play in the position of the records on the platter while spinning. Is it possible to swap out the spindle? Is it worth it?
The tracking force won't effect the pitch unless the turntables motor and drive train faulty in some way. As others have said, check the drive mechanism.

Also, I have never heard a problem from the slight difference in spindle diameters. Way more common reasons are the record pressing being off centre. Some times a bad stamping slips through QC.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by DSJR » 08 Apr 2019 20:27

In this arm, the AT95E can track at 1.8g safely with a margin, but you need an external scale to check this. 2g shouldn't worry this deck at all as at the time, Goldring G800's at 3g, lower cost Pickering/Stantons and Shure M44 derivatives also tracked at around this force I remember.

Garrard built down to a price certainly (sadly for me), but they weren't so bad that they got the basics wrong! Do your records slop around on the centre spindle? Wow will be audible if the arm is 'swinging' in and out when playing, but it's usually knackered old records played a lot on fixed spindle changers that may cause occasional issues. Conversely, Thorens decks used to have very slightly oversize spindles, meaning many records, especially new ones, were a tight fit, this on a very softly sprung sub-chassis model.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by Jmoog » 10 Apr 2019 12:28

DSJR wrote:
08 Apr 2019 20:27
Do your records slop around on the centre spindle?
Not horribly so, with most records I can move them side to side maybe a 16th of an inch when they are on the spindle. The pitch variation doesn't seem to be a constant problem but does rear it's head at times. Most of my records are in VG+ to NM condition so I don't think record quality is an issue. It's just an annoyance since I paid $250 to have this Garrard refurbished (it had many issues). I probably wouldn't have spent the money on refurbishing the deck but it belonged to my girlfriend's Father and she was happy that it was going to be up and running again.

A70BBen
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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by A70BBen » 10 Apr 2019 21:49

How rapid is the speed fluctuation? If rapid and fluttery it could be due to the stylus flexing on mini-warps. If slower, several Hz, it could be warp-wow which occurs over record warps when a tonearm whose vertical-motion pivot is higher than the record surface. The Garrard Type A was worse than most, for that. If the fluctuation is slow, 0.5 Hz or so, look to decentration of the record on the spindle, or a decentered pressing, which is actually more common than one might fhink.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by Jmoog » 13 Apr 2019 12:43

A70BBen wrote:
10 Apr 2019 21:49
How rapid is the speed fluctuation? If rapid and fluttery it could be due to the stylus flexing on mini-warps. If slower, several Hz, it could be warp-wow which occurs over record warps when a tonearm whose vertical-motion pivot is higher than the record surface. The Garrard Type A was worse than most, for that. If the fluctuation is slow, 0.5 Hz or so, look to decentration of the record on the spindle, or a decentered pressing, which is actually more common than one might fhink.
It is not a rapid speed fluctuation. It is more of a very slight dip in pitch at times.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by Jmoog » 13 Apr 2019 14:39

Jmoog wrote:
13 Apr 2019 12:43
A70BBen wrote:
10 Apr 2019 21:49
How rapid is the speed fluctuation? If rapid and fluttery it could be due to the stylus flexing on mini-warps. If slower, several Hz, it could be warp-wow which occurs over record warps when a tonearm whose vertical-motion pivot is higher than the record surface. The Garrard Type A was worse than most, for that. If the fluctuation is slow, 0.5 Hz or so, look to decentration of the record on the spindle, or a decentered pressing, which is actually more common than one might fhink.
It is not a rapid speed fluctuation. It is more of a very slight dip in pitch at times.
Listening today im hearing a somewhat rapid speed fluctuation that I hadn't noticed before but again it seems to only be noticable on instrumental passages in the music, the vocals always sound right on. When hearing the rapid speed fluctuation I noticed that the tonearm was swaying side to side a bit, I did not notice much flexing of the stylus.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by DSJR » 14 Apr 2019 18:27

Eccentric centre holes on your records? Sometimes before playing, the record can be 'jogged' so the groove doesn't oscillate back and forth. Shorter arms such as the Garrard types can make this 'wow' worse, but it's wavering back and forth once per revolution rather than a flutter type of sound.

Just a thought...

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by Pure_brew » 15 Apr 2019 01:57

Jmoog wrote:
10 Apr 2019 12:28
DSJR wrote:
08 Apr 2019 20:27
Do your records slop around on the centre spindle?
Not horribly so, with most records I can move them side to side maybe a 16th of an inch when they are on the spindle. The pitch variation doesn't seem to be a constant problem but does rear it's head at times. Most of my records are in VG+ to NM condition so I don't think record quality is an issue. It's just an annoyance since I paid $250 to have this Garrard refurbished (it had many issues). I probably wouldn't have spent the money on refurbishing the deck but it belonged to my girlfriend's Father and she was happy that it was going to be up and running again.
If the same albums don't have the issues on your Pioneer TT, then its safe to say that the issue is with the turntable- somewhere.

Is it possible to play as is with some rockin' tunes and enjoy it on some level?

If not, back to the shop?

I'd be curious what they did with the idler. That rubber wheel makes a huge difference on the overall performance on these types of turntables.

Anyway- best of luck.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by DSJR » 15 Apr 2019 09:47

Oh heck... $250? You could buy a nice Dual for that money with change if you wanted a top auto model... Mind you, that may need some gentle service too.

The point about decks like this is that you buy 'em cheap in seized condition and then have some fun stripping and restoring them... That's what this 'room' is for primarily in my book, so we oldies can help people new to machinery like this as much as possible and have a bit of fun doing it.

The mk2 'SL' motors can have issues, where the magnet and aluminium disc can separate from the rotor proper, but you'd damn well know it if this happened due to the noises. Replacement idler wheels can be got in good used condition, but it'd be worth making sure there are washers top and bottom (I think they were fibre but I'm sure nylon-delrin types would be just fine as long as the wheel can rotate freely). I mention this as it seems ok sometimes but not others.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by Jmoog » 24 Apr 2019 00:49

I'm not sure what was done with the idler arm. The pitch issue doesn't seem to be consistent in either effect or frequency so I think I'm just going to live with it until I learn enough to take a crack at working on it myself. Paying the $250 was a hard pill to swallow but as I said before the 72b belonged to my girlfriend's Father and she wanted to see it restored and used so I went ahead with it. I would like to get to the point where I can work on the tables myself. I'll keep reading these forums and maybe try to find some other tables to take apart and play with.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by chrissywit » 13 Jul 2019 14:34

Hi, I've found the ortofon 2M blue works perfectly with my Garrard SL95b which also uses the C2 cartridge sled..

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by Howard365 » 13 Jul 2019 22:30

chrissywit wrote:
13 Jul 2019 14:34
Hi, I've found the ortofon 2M blue works perfectly with my Garrard SL95b which also uses the C2 cartridge sled..
How did you do that? C2 sled takes screws from the bottom; Ortofon blue has screw holes on the top.

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Re: Garrard SL-72b cartridge alignment adjustment?

Post by chrissywit » 14 Jul 2019 15:33

Hi, I think there must be two kinds of C2, mine has the adjustable screw slots in the Sled. Pic is of a Stanton fitted to same type sled. I'll photograph the ortofon later and post.

Actually now I have taken a close look it looks more like a C6. Both my sleds are the same type and fit the SL95b arm perfectly so maybe a C6 will help solve your problem. There are some C6 available on eBay but in the USA if you don't mind paying the shipping.

Kind regards
Chrissy.
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Garrard Sled
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