'High Performance' CDs from BMG

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Rosemary Flatbread
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'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Rosemary Flatbread » 08 Mar 2019 18:30

Hi,
I've just bought Tomita's 'Snowflakes are dancing' on RCA/BMG in their 'High performance' stable from Amazon.
Has anyone had any dealings with these 'High performance' discs?
It's says they are 24/96 but use "Newly developed" down-sampling software" to allow them to be played on standard CD players. (Hmm!).
I don't have a standard version of the album to compare - and it certainly sounds ok (given that it's electronic music and therefore synthetic anyway) but is it any better than a standard 16/44 disc or is it BS do you think?

Shadowman82
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Shadowman82 » 08 Mar 2019 23:20

I would say that's BS , the fact that the recording was originally 24/96 doesn't help you if the CD can only do 16/44.1 .

Rosemary Flatbread
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Rosemary Flatbread » 09 Mar 2019 08:49

That's my thoughts too. RCA should be above that sort of thing

uem
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by uem » 09 Mar 2019 09:26

Dear Rosemary,

The "tweaking” of the good old, but unfortunately rather restricted, CD format was done before.
Here a link to a similar topic.
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/ ... tc.164386/

The only experiences I have with such a “tweaked” format are some K2HD discs.
From one, the “Cantate Domino” I own this as K2HD, the ordinary CD from Proprius (a well-known Swedish company) and the original Vinyl LP Version.

My ranking would be:
Best is Vinyl, followed very closely by K2HD, and last the ordinary CD.

Some other users seem to have come to similar conclusions.
Hence: it probably depends very much, how far the “tweaking process” is performed along the route from original Master Tape /Digital source material to the end-user format…

BTW: important is that the CD is according to the Redbook Standard; some - even high class ! - CD players may be very fussy about this…

Regards
Urs

Pauw
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Pauw » 09 Mar 2019 09:36

This format is relatively ancient...I bought this many years ago in this format and when I had finished playing it I could see nothing special in the format....in fact I put it up against a vinyl copy of the album and the vinyl and it were neck and neck and contained the same problems and limitations......Snowflakes is an early Tomita album and it seems that the formats available at the time could deliver 99% of what was contained within the recording....however , I think BMG felt they could wring a bit more out of the market if they tried to re-market this recording and implied that this new CD style would allow you to get more that had previously available .....pure marketing!

Shadowman82
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Shadowman82 » 10 Mar 2019 04:17

I would not be surprised if they actually mastered these better just so they will actually sound better than the standard CD version . With that in mind they wouldn't sound better because of the fact that the master was in 24/96 but only because they had better mastering , you know the way a CD should be mastered all the time .

Pauw
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Pauw » 10 Mar 2019 10:09

Shadowman82 wrote:
10 Mar 2019 04:17
I would not be surprised if they actually mastered these better just so they will actually sound better than the standard CD version . With that in mind they wouldn't sound better because of the fact that the master was in 24/96 but only because they had better mastering , you know the way a CD should be mastered all the time .
As far as I'm aware this was the ONLY version of this title available ...there was no previous CD version. :D

JoeE SP9
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by JoeE SP9 » 10 Mar 2019 19:22

The music on any and every commercial CD (SACD excepted) is 16/44. This is not optional.

Lucky me. I have Snowflakes Are Dancing on vinyl. :mrgreen:

Shadowman82
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Shadowman82 » 10 Mar 2019 20:44

JoeE SP9 wrote:
10 Mar 2019 19:22
The music on any and every commercial CD (SACD excepted) is 16/44. This is not optional.

Lucky me. I have Snowflakes Are Dancing on vinyl. :mrgreen:
Yes it is . I've also always been doubtful of those high end CD players who use multiple oversampling and DACs with very high bit rate and sampling frequency . In the end the CD is still only 16-bit/44.1khz , you can't conjure up something that isn't there .

Vinylfreak86
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Vinylfreak86 » 11 Mar 2019 09:51

CD is in decline and to justify the costs of production of unpopular format, they need to repack it in something that sounds "better" and "high-quality". It is a market strategy. CD has too much limitations to be a serious audiophile format.

Shadowman82
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Shadowman82 » 11 Mar 2019 21:51

I would agree with that . I kind of wonder if the CD disappeared if we would have more high-res digital releases , wether they be SA-CD or downloads . Or maybe we'll just have Vinyl and compressed downloads . In any case I would speculate that Vinyl will outlast the CD .

Vinylfreak86
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Vinylfreak86 » 12 Mar 2019 13:30

Shadowman82 wrote:
11 Mar 2019 21:51
In any case I would speculate that Vinyl will outlast the CD .
That is not the question. Grammophone record as it is from the beginning of 20. century when it wasn`t vinyl yet to these days survived all other and more modern physical formats for listening music. It will stay here also when all of us will be long buried. Maybe it won`t be vinyl anymore, because of the end of oil era, but the basic technology will stay.

Rosemary Flatbread
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Rosemary Flatbread » 12 Mar 2019 19:25

For most people who don't own a decent vinyl playing system, I still think CD is still the best option though.
I myself haven't got the money to invest in a serious turntable and phono amp and even though blind comparisons at a mate's house proved to me that vinyl is better (he has a serious system) I'm sticking to digital. I buy hi-res DVD or FLAC when I can but usually the album I want isn't available so CD it has to be.
Shadowman82 wrote:
11 Mar 2019 21:51
I would agree with that . I kind of wonder if the CD disappeared if we would have more high-res digital releases , wether they be SA-CD or downloads . Or maybe we'll just have Vinyl and compressed downloads . In any case I would speculate that Vinyl will outlast the CD .

Shadowman82
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Shadowman82 » 12 Mar 2019 23:41

True you do have to spend more on Vinyl to get good sound than on CD .

Vinylfreak86
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Re: 'High Performance' CDs from BMG

Post by Vinylfreak86 » 13 Mar 2019 10:06

Rosemary Flatbread wrote:
12 Mar 2019 19:25
For most people who don't own a decent vinyl playing system, I still think CD is still the best option though.
I myself haven't got the money to invest in a serious turntable and phono amp and even though blind comparisons at a mate's house proved to me that vinyl is better (he has a serious system) I'm sticking to digital. I buy hi-res DVD or FLAC when I can but usually the album I want isn't available so CD it has to be.
In terms of spending money for a format which won`t be worth anything in ten years from now, it is risky. If I am buying new and second-hand records in good condition I can still sell them in 10-20 years from now. Maybe some with loss, others with pofit. Buying new hi-res bluray discs with music and similar things isn`t cheap, they are more expensive like vinyl releases. Ok, classic compact disc releases became cheap these days (available from 6 eur new), but majority of them sounds average if not terrible. And new CD players available from 180-300 eur are also nothing special, cheap electronic. if you want a CD player that will do the job perfectly, you will have to spend at least 700 eur for it. Here vinyl becomes more cheap option with better performance ( around 100 eur for a vintage direct-drive, 100 eur for a good cartridge and that is it, maybe 120 eur for a separate phono stage if you don`t find a vintage amp with a good phono input).

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