New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

the thin end of the wedge
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Boltman92124
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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by Boltman92124 » 20 Mar 2017 22:45

cats squirrel wrote:the Carbon fibre (reinforced plastic) cantilever is available for the AT91. There is a huge blob of glue holding the stylus on mine. It is re-badged by Rega, who call it the Carbon (fair enough). It is not as good as the AT95, and provides about 8% distortion.

People into heavy metal will love it. :wink:
Yeah but both of those are conical stylus. Wouldn't expect them to be any better than the stock 91/3600.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by Erin1 » 21 Mar 2017 05:20

smee4 wrote: The 440 lacks bass, and is generally more thin sounding, when compared to the deft2.
Thanks for replying.
Ok, so the deft 2 has the same clarity in the high frequencies, and everything is just as good as the 440Mlb, except the Deft 2 has more bass and less thin sound?

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by Boltman92124 » 21 Mar 2017 15:04

So without getting long winded..it's a $60 cartridge anyway. This version of the AT95 sounds OK. It is darker sounding than the AT stylus set-up and has lower output for sure. The midrange is very nice and the bass is hefty compared to the stock 95e. It does sound rolled off on top but it is still basically brand new. Like the other CF LP Gear Cart I have (3600le), it tracked my defective Steel Pulse album without a single skip...only the 2 Carbon carts are able to do this out of my 7 carts. So there's a benefit of the Carbon models I would say.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by smee4 » 21 Mar 2017 22:46

Erin1 wrote:
smee4 wrote: The 440 lacks bass, and is generally more thin sounding, when compared to the deft2.
Thanks for replying.
Ok, so the deft 2 has the same clarity in the high frequencies, and everything is just as good as the 440Mlb, except the Deft 2 has more bass and less thin sound?
Basically yes.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by Wimbo » 22 Mar 2017 01:00

I've got an AT95VL on a Music Hall MMF9,Vincent PHO-8 combo and it Sounds fantastic. Really dynamic without losing control and running into HF distortion. I've had Aq404's,Dynavector 17Ds and 23R's. OC7's OC9's Suganos,Supex's,all the AT magnets from the 80's running on Linn LP12/Ittok's and this thing is right up there.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by Erin1 » 22 Mar 2017 08:29

Wimbo wrote:I've got an AT95VL on a Music Hall MMF9,Vincent PHO-8 combo and it Sounds fantastic. Really dynamic without losing control and running into HF distortion. I've had Aq404's,Dynavector 17Ds and 23R's. OC7's OC9's Suganos,Supex's,all the AT magnets from the 80's running on Linn LP12/Ittok's and this thing is right up there.
Excellent! I love it when someone confirms MM is as good as MC.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by Boltman92124 » 25 Mar 2017 23:14

This CF95se is settling nicely. Super low surface noise on used lps. Less sibilants than stock 95e stylus.Very nice.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by cafe latte » 21 Feb 2019 07:23

BMRR wrote:
18 Mar 2017 16:24
Just remember that it's not pure carbon fiber. It's a composite of carbon and plastic. AT uses it on their least-expensive cartridges because it's durable and less likely to be bent or broken accidentally by rough handling or an inexperienced user. If it sounded better than an aluminum tube, AT would be using it on more than just their entry-level cartridges. :) The issue here is that the words "carbon" and "carbon fiber" sound sophisticated, advanced, high-tech... and let's face it, audiophiles and hifi enthusiasts are drawn to things like that. LPGear is taking advantage of that and profiting from it. Capitalism at its best (or at its worst, depending on your viewpoint).
Reviving an old thread as I have one of the CF AT95e incoming. The AT3600l sounds better than the AT95e and the AT3600l has a conical and the 95e elliptical and the 95e has an aluminium cantilever. IMO there is something to this composite cantilever, plastic CF composite, whatever it is seems to work well. Very curious to hear how it sounds on a AT95.
I have a very expensive MC with a carbon fiber wrapped cantilever so maybe there is something to it, plastic in there or not no reason why it cant work well, it does on the AT3600l..
Chris

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by smee4 » 22 Feb 2019 01:20

cafe latte wrote:
21 Feb 2019 07:23
BMRR wrote:
18 Mar 2017 16:24
Just remember that it's not pure carbon fiber. It's a composite of carbon and plastic. AT uses it on their least-expensive cartridges because it's durable and less likely to be bent or broken accidentally by rough handling or an inexperienced user. If it sounded better than an aluminum tube, AT would be using it on more than just their entry-level cartridges. :) The issue here is that the words "carbon" and "carbon fiber" sound sophisticated, advanced, high-tech... and let's face it, audiophiles and hifi enthusiasts are drawn to things like that. LPGear is taking advantage of that and profiting from it. Capitalism at its best (or at its worst, depending on your viewpoint).
Reviving an old thread as I have one of the CF AT95e incoming. The AT3600l sounds better than the AT95e and the AT3600l has a conical and the 95e elliptical and the 95e has an aluminium cantilever. IMO there is something to this composite cantilever, plastic CF composite, whatever it is seems to work well. Very curious to hear how it sounds on a AT95.
I have a very expensive MC with a carbon fiber wrapped cantilever so maybe there is something to it, plastic in there or not no reason why it cant work well, it does on the AT3600l..
Chris
Some improvements come accidentally. Maybe the carbon idea started as a cheap alternative, but maybe it works. If you think of how objects resonate, metal (as in aluminium and boron cantilevers) makes good bells, and crystal (as in ruby) rings nicely too , but a (carbon) plastic cantilever might give truer transmission of the groove information without adding anything.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by wolfie62 » 22 Feb 2019 07:46

It’s all about energy transfer in the cantilever.

Stiffness to weight ratio, the cantilever has to transmit every motion of the diamond in the record groove up to the coils or magnets. That’s why beryllium was such a perfect material. It has 4x the strength of aluminum but only 1/2 its weight.

My concern with the carbon fiber is internal dampening. The resin that bonds the carbon fibers may absorb and dissipate some of the vibrations. I don’t know for sure.

But it depends a lot on how the fibers are used, how they are oriented, and on what resin is used.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by smee4 » 22 Feb 2019 07:49

wolfie62 wrote:
22 Feb 2019 07:46
It’s all about energy transfer in the cantilever.

Stiffness to weight ratio, the cantilever has to transmit every motion of the diamond in the record groove up to the coils or magnets. That’s why beryllium was such a perfect material. It has 4x the strength of aluminum but only 1/2 its weight.

My concern with the carbon fiber is internal dampening. The resin that bonds the carbon fibers may absorb and dissipate some of the vibrations. I don’t know for sure.

But it depends a lot on how the fibers are used, how they are oriented, and on what resin is used.
It'll be better than all those plastic styluses that have been around since the sixties, and are still used in cheap devices these days. :)

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by cafe latte » 22 Feb 2019 08:33

wolfie62 wrote:
22 Feb 2019 07:46
It’s all about energy transfer in the cantilever.

Stiffness to weight ratio, the cantilever has to transmit every motion of the diamond in the record groove up to the coils or magnets. That’s why beryllium was such a perfect material. It has 4x the strength of aluminum but only 1/2 its weight.

My concern with the carbon fiber is internal dampening. The resin that bonds the carbon fibers may absorb and dissipate some of the vibrations. I don’t know for sure.

But it depends a lot on how the fibers are used, how they are oriented, and on what resin is used.
Energy cant be created or destroyed it cant be dissipated. Stylus does need some degree of damping as energy in the cantilever can continue to vibrate the cantilever. We want the coils to be excited once for each groove vibration not again and again. Materials like CF damp better so vibration energy is converted into heat. Carts like the Madrigal had carbon wrapped cantilever for this reason, even Grado put a black gloop on the cantilever for this reason to deaden things so the cantilever does not keep vibrating.
Chris

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by wolfie62 » 22 Feb 2019 08:47

You have a few concepts wrong. Energy is dissipated all the time! Heat, sound, even a ripple in a pond is energy dissipated!

The fundamental vibrations MUST be transmitted by the cantilever. You don’t want the fundamental vibrations from the diamond absorbed or dissipated in the cantilever before they reach the magnets or coils. You are referring to ringing, or resonance. No, you don’t want that either.

You want to transmit the fundamental vibration, THEN dampen any ringing. This normally occurs by a dampening block and by the dampening of the magnetic circuit itself. Just one proportional fundamental transmitted, then any ringing killed. But you don’t want that fundamental vibration killed before it ever reaches the magnetic circuit, either moving magnets or moving coils.

This is why, in years past when independent labs did REAL reviews and testing of audio equipment, they tested a cartridge for its ability to track a square wave. It revealed frequency response (vertical rise time) and ringing (ripple at the top of the square wave).

So many today say, “But I don’t listen to graphs!” Actually, yes they do! They listen to what those graphs reveal. Used to be, we knew how products performed before we bought them.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by cafe latte » 22 Feb 2019 09:08

wolfie62 wrote:
22 Feb 2019 08:47
You have a few concepts wrong. Energy is dissipated all the time! Heat, sound, even a ripple in a pond is energy dissipated!

The fundamental vibrations MUST be transmitted by the cantilever. You don’t want the fundamental vibrations from the diamond absorbed or dissipated in the cantilever before they reach the magnets or coils. You are referring to ringing, or resonance. No, you don’t want that either.

You want to transmit the fundamental vibration, THEN dampen any ringing. This normally occurs by a dampening block and by the dampening of the magnetic circuit itself. Just one proportional fundamental transmitted, then any ringing killed. But you don’t want that fundamental vibration killed before it ever reaches the magnetic circuit, either moving magnets or moving coils.

This is why, in years past when independent labs did REAL reviews and testing of audio equipment, they tested a cartridge for its ability to track a square wave. It revealed frequency response (vertical rise time) and ringing (ripple at the top of the square wave).

So many today say, “But I don’t listen to graphs!” Actually, yes they do! They listen to what those graphs reveal. Used to be, we knew how products performed before we bought them.
Energy is not diapated it is transformed to another type of energy This is the first law of thermodynamics . In the case of vibrational it is normally heat, maybe sound, but all energy moves to another form. The problem with a cantilever we need it to not store energy ie keep vibrating with the energy from the groove before, but we want it stiff so we don't loose information.
Chris

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by wolfie62 » 22 Feb 2019 09:58

Symantics. Energy dissipation refers to energy lost. Lost by transfer, or lost by transformation. Converted to heat and heat dissipated, or transferred to the surrounding air.

What’s the difference in striking a tuning fork and striking a rubber hose?

Most cantilevers are like the tuning fork, only the tuning fork has a resonance well above the audio frequency band. It does transfer the fundamental though, when it is strikes. A rubber hose, not so much; it dissipates (transforms to heat) the energy of a strike immediately.

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