My new alignment template generator

the thin end of the wedge
klegier
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by klegier » 26 Jan 2019 04:37

Thank you both for the responses. I have determined the overhang to be 49mm. but I do not think I need it now. Anyhow, the "help" (built in overhang checker) on the deck is useful, but does not seem to be very precise. I'm sure it will get it within +/-2mm, but that is about it. But, I will try out the template anyway to see where it comes out. Thanks again.

andyr
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by andyr » 26 Jan 2019 05:45

I would be surprised if the correct overhang is indeed 49mm. But, as I think others have said before, on this thread, setting o/hang is not important - what is important is aligning the cart correctly, using the protractor.

Andy

Sunwire
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 26 Jan 2019 06:45

The distance from the base of the headshell connector to the tip of the stylus measures 49 mm for Pioneer's recommended alignment.
The Pioneer overhang gauge that was supplied with their turntables is designed to measure 49mm.
The corresponding gauge that was supplied with Technics turntables is designed to measure 52mm.
The overhang distance is some smaller number. I think it's 15mm for Technics.
According to this gauge, it's 13.3mm for Pioneer.
pioneer-turntable-overhang-gauge.jpg
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Sunwire
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 26 Jan 2019 06:47

If you use Conrad's alignment template generator tool, you can COMPLETELY IGNORE Pioneer's recommended overhang.
It is NOT IMPORTANT to match Pioneer's recommended overhang if you use Conrad's tool.
You will waste a lot of time and may drive yourself crazy if you try to make them both work.

andyr
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by andyr » 26 Jan 2019 07:22

Sunwire wrote:
26 Jan 2019 06:45
The distance from the base of the headshell connector to the tip of the stylus measures 49 mm for Pioneer's recommended alignment.
The Pioneer overhang gauge that was supplied with their turntables is designed to measure 49mm.
The corresponding gauge that was supplied with Technics turntables is designed to measure 52mm.
The overhang distance is some smaller number. I think it's 15mm for Technics.
According to this gauge, it's 13.3mm for Pioneer.
pioneer-turntable-overhang-gauge.jpg
The common definition of "overhang" is the distance that the stylus should 'overhang' (ie. be past) the spindle centre.

Pioneer's so-called "overhang guage" may well measure 49mm - but this is a different measurement to true "cartridge overhang" ... however, using it may well put the stylus in approximately the correct position. But, as Sunwire said, this is best determined by using a cartridge protractor.

Andy

Sunwire
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 27 Jan 2019 00:02

I didn't say one way was better than another.
I choose to use Conrad's tool to create a protractor.
But I have also experimented with using an overhang gauge like the Pioneer tool.

It IS an overhang gauge. If you use it, the overhang will be 13.3 mm on a Pioneer turntable.

Many people swear by the Technics overhang gauge and prefer the results compared to using other tools and alignments.

My point is simply that you should choose one or the other.
Many folks in this thread (and others) have expressed frustration when they try to use both Conrad's tool AND the recommended overhang from the tonearm manufacturer.

andyr
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by andyr » 27 Jan 2019 01:58

Sorry for misquoting you, Sunwire. :(

I myself don't use Conrad's protractor (as I had great difficulty adjusting my printer's scale so that the horizontal and vertical scales were the correct length). So instead, I have bought several of Ken Willis's "Accutrac" arc protractors for my ams.

To me, the cart positioning devices which come with a number of arms (including my Graham 2.2) are not as accurate as an arc protractor.

Andy

Sunwire
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Sunwire » 27 Jan 2019 03:54

No problem :)

Yes, I have more faith in Conrad's tool than in a plastic gauge.
BUT
After I used Conrad's tool, I realized I could speed things up when aligning new cartridges by using a Technics/Pioneer-type overhang gauge that I marked with the stylus position from a cartridge/headshell I had previously aligned using Conrad's tool.
So, I can use my customized overhang gauge to do an initial adjustment of the cartridge on the headshell, then use the arc protractor to get the exact placement. Best of both worlds!

andyr
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by andyr » 27 Jan 2019 04:07

Sunwire wrote:
27 Jan 2019 03:54
No problem :)

Yes, I have more faith in Conrad's tool than in a plastic gauge.
BUT
After I used Conrad's tool, I realized I could speed things up when aligning new cartridges by using a Technics/Pioneer-type overhang gauge that I marked with the stylus position from a cartridge/headshell I had previously aligned using Conrad's tool.
So, I can use my customized overhang gauge to do an initial adjustment of the cartridge on the headshell, then use the arc protractor to get the exact placement. Best of both worlds!
BOBW, indeed - if you have a removable-headshell arm which has such an overhang guage! :)

Andy

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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by northa40 » 28 Jan 2019 01:07

Yes, I agree with andyr. I always start with the recommended setting and than use the protractor to get it lined up. Using the lines as a guide helps to insure that you get right.

savakntr
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by savakntr » 28 Jan 2019 13:26

Dear All,

I need your advise for a VPI tonearm and namely VPI JMW 10 3D. In detail the manufacturer states that the Pivot to spindle for this tonearm is 258mm and the Effective length: 273.4mm.

By applying the P2S distance of 258 mm to the calculator, lets say for Lofren A (IEC), the result, on printing, for Effective lenght is 273.025 mm instead of 273.4mm (specified by VPI). in order, for me, to match the VPI specified Effective lenght of 273.4mm, the P2S distance in the calculator, should be increased from 258mm (as specified by VPI) to 259.04mm (as per the calculator)

Therefore should I increase the P2S distance and comply with the calculator in order to comply with VPI effective lenght or keep it as specified from VPI and have different effective lenght?

Thank you in advance

Japi Roelofs
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Japi Roelofs » 28 Jan 2019 15:36

The pivot to spindle distance is the one thing that is NOT a variable, so don't mess with that number.

Using the P2S distance of 258 mm in the calculator, a Lofgren B alignment produces an effective length of 273.422 mm, which is extremely close to the VPI specs. That might have been the alignment they had in mind when making the tonearm.

But it really doesn't make any difference: choose the alignment you want to use, and make sure the print is 100% to scale.

savakntr
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by savakntr » 28 Jan 2019 17:10

In such a case then, one should only go for the tangential curve, for which the tone arm was initially designed, otherwise I guess more distortion (due to geometry changes) is introduced to the system.

Am I right?

Japi Roelofs
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by Japi Roelofs » 28 Jan 2019 18:01

Not really. Did you look at the cartridge alignment calculator here on the Vinyl Engine website? It will show you how and where the distortion happens.

savakntr
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Re: My new alignment template generator

Post by savakntr » 28 Jan 2019 18:14

I will check
Thank you indeed

Can you please send me the link to this calculator?

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