Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

name that tune
joedisco
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Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by joedisco » 10 Jan 2019 23:58

Hi all

Im a music lover and my first love is classical music but I also listen to rock, hard rock, heavy metal, etc as well.

Considering my humble entry level audio gear (Yamaha RXV483, Sony SSCS-5 three way peakers and Sony CDP-C715 CD player plus LG Blu Ray player and budget soon-to-be-replaced Aiwa pxe 850 TT), I have noticed that I somewhat prefer to listen to rock and metal in vinyl while I prefer CD for classical music and opera.

What do you think?

For instance, a few days ago I was just playing Triumph first vinyl album (In the begining) and oh God this is such a joy in vinyl! You can feel the energy!
Then put Judas Priest Sad Wings of Destiny and oh what a gem! Then put Quicksilver Messenger Service and then Hendrix rare Hendrix, then Acqua Fragile (numero uno) and another bliss and Rory Gallagher Photo Finish and Bob Welch French Kiss and the energy is there, you can feel, nearly you can see the guys playing and extracting every drop of juice from their instruments!!

But then moved to Sviastoslav Richter rendition of Rachmaninoff second piano concerto and... Well this is a great master piece but prefer much more to listen to it in CD! I have a Karajan's Famous Overtures CD and oh in CD it is a glorious CD that takes you from Mozart to Wagner and what a journey!! But in CD, please! Bruckner complete symphonies?? CD!!
The same goes for opera and vocal music. For instance, I have nearly every Cecilia Bartoli CD and can not think of it for vinyl (I don't think they exist in vinyl)... And Handel's Orlando Furioso? In CD please! Bach Saint Matthew Passion? CD!! Though I have a few Opera vinyl records, I nearly never listen to them. Classical music? Opera? In CD and or DVD or Blu Ray, this is what my ears demand!!
But to be fair for Classical music I have only a few vinyl records so it is difficult to compare.... But for me, listening to it in CD makes me not wanting anything else.... Classical/Opera/Vocal? CD all the way. Rock/Metal? vinyl!!

What do you think?

Cheers!

jacrider
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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by jacrider » 11 Jan 2019 01:36

I listen to all genres on multiple formats - vinyl, CD-rips and Tidal.

Most used record stores are filled with bins of great classical records at very low prices. A great value.

Jazz is one that we prefer on vinyl. We do like Tidal for finding more rare jazz albums of artists we like.

I do try to not buy the same piece of music on multiple formats, but we do have some of our favourites in both vinyl and digital...

DualSpinsMyVinyl
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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by DualSpinsMyVinyl » 11 Jan 2019 03:24

Being and old fart, 99% of my listening is done with vinyl, I just never really converted to CD. Thats not to say that I do not have CD's. I did purchase a couple hundred classical CD's when they were hot in the 90's and early 2000's, and loaded them into my IPod and I play them thru a mini Bose blue tooth speaker at work for background listening (still working at 70+). This is my use of CD's. At home it is 100 % records. I have rock & roll from the 50's thru to 80's, that I purchased new and still play them, however I am partial to classical music. I have just shy of 700 albums of which 561 are classical. My system does a very credible job at reporducing classical music to my satisfaction. So that is what makes up my listening world. If we all played the same thing what a dull world it would be.

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by RockerFrank » 11 Jan 2019 08:44

If I remember correctly, a big part of the CD breakthrough was indeed about classical music and how the CD brings out all the little details clearly etc. The bigger headroom also, I guess has most importance in classical music where some parts are real quiet and others real loud. I think many of the early CD player owners were classical fans.

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 11 Jan 2019 12:18

RockerFrank wrote:
11 Jan 2019 08:44
If I remember correctly, a big part of the CD breakthrough was indeed about classical music and how the CD brings out all the little details clearly etc. The bigger headroom also, I guess has most importance in classical music where some parts are real quiet and others real loud. I think many of the early CD player owners were classical fans.
Seems to me this was said about every genre of music. And I remember my wife and I thinking we were hearing more things (details) in some albums.

I also remember when we did a serious upgrade in both TT and cartridge (mostly cartridge) and we thought the same thing; about vinyl this time.

This, of course, was in the first years of CDs which I don't think were the best because the record companies were trying to quickly put out as many CDs as possible, no matter the quality.

When I saw the first CD marketed as being "remastered" I wondered if this was the industry admitting they'd been selling us crap for years... if you consider that different media need different mastering.

That said, today, I have recent releases of new music both in vinyl and CD form that are wonderful. I also have some CDs that are not so wonderful; from small local bands, mastered by the same engineer who did the recording/mixing.

Don't know if this is still true with CDs, but in the days of vinyl the art of mastering was very specific and, usually, the two were not done by the same engineer.

Anyway, all this to say I have good music of every genre in both media. :D

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by RockerFrank » 11 Jan 2019 14:17

VinyldechezPierre wrote:
11 Jan 2019 12:18
RockerFrank wrote:
11 Jan 2019 08:44
If I remember correctly, a big part of the CD breakthrough was indeed about classical music and how the CD brings out all the little details clearly etc. The bigger headroom also, I guess has most importance in classical music where some parts are real quiet and others real loud. I think many of the early CD player owners were classical fans.
Seems to me this was said about every genre of music. And I remember my wife and I thinking we were hearing more things (details) in some albums.

I also remember when we did a serious upgrade in both TT and cartridge (mostly cartridge) and we thought the same thing; about vinyl this time.
Hi Pierre! Hope you're enjoying your 22-Pistepirkko. Yeah I guess it was said about every genre. But maybe classical music has more of those details making the difference more prominent. Not that I'm an expert in classical. Good point about the gear upgrade. When CD's came, most people certainly didn't have audiophile gear for their records.

Personally I think it's often the vocals that suffer most in the A/D conversion.

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 12 Jan 2019 08:37

RockerFrank wrote:
11 Jan 2019 14:17

Hi Pierre! Hope you're enjoying your 22-Pistepirkko.
Hi there. Yes enjoying them quite a lot. But haven't added to my international r'n'r collection since. :(

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by ravelax » 15 Jan 2019 01:20

I generally prefer CD for sound quality, but the physical act of playing LP's has a special charm to it. Most of my vinyl collection is actually classical music, even though it's the one genre where I find it easiest to appreciate the sound quality of the CD medium over vinyl. I've ended up with a lot of classical records (and still continue to buy them) mainly because it's cheap to buy, and I've also found quite a bit of rare music or performances that aren't available on CD or streaming services. I have also realised that the process of playing a vinyl record (often described as a sort of ritual, a description which definitely has some merit) and having the spinning disc to look at makes it easier for me to focus my attention on the music, which I find more important when listening to classical music. It makes for a more immersive experience on the whole. Still, although I mainly buy records in very good condition, even slight surface noise can be very irritating. Also, listening to a complete opera spread out on three or four LP's can be rather tedious (especially if it's an old release where the records are auto-coupled), but on the other hand the large booklets can be a real joy compared to the small ones of CD releases!

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by JDJX » 15 Jan 2019 02:21

The biggest "selling" points of a CDS for classical was the ability of hearing a movement emerge from total silence and not having to turn an LP over for a second half of a symphony.

The first reason always seemed a bit strange to me as classical fans usually take fanatical care of their LPs and groove noise was really not an issue .....or of very low volume.

Of course with rock, pop, etc, the main selling point was wider dynamic range but, we all know that compression won that one. :)

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 15 Jan 2019 15:29

JDJX wrote:
15 Jan 2019 02:21
The biggest "selling" points of a CDS for classical was the ability of hearing a movement emerge from total silence and not having to turn an LP over for a second half of a symphony.
:lol: Imagine now when people went from 78s to LPs...

Yet the sound of 78s is so much more incredible than that of LPs.

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by Audiodude » 17 Jan 2019 05:54

I went the other way round. I switched to analog (when permitting) for the very same reasons most people have been pointing out about CD. I had been listening to CD's and digital for the last 20yrs., until my wife brought home some records to sell on Ebay. I said "We better get a turntable so we can check for skipping and sound quality.", so I bought a Sony TT from Best buy. From the moment I listened to that 1st record, I new there was more to be heard on vinyl. That was over 3 yrs ago, now I have gone through several TT's, cart's, phonopre's, speakers, etc. I have also purchased a few CD players to see if any came close to my TT, no luck so far. Digital recordings sound flat to me, even those "remastered for vinyl" sound very 2D and not much imaging. My listening tastes varies from metal to classical and almost everything in between. I get what is being said about classical albums and how compression "helps" it, but that's kinda how the symphony sounds live. Although I am certain that the seats in the middle near the front sound considerably better than the seats I could afford. Vinyl has brought back my love of audio and the never ending quest for better sound.

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 17 Jan 2019 16:27

wrote:
17 Jan 2019 14:16
...I went through a major paradigm shift then regarding my respect for certain labels. And when it comes to classical, labels matter so much that at the time we didn't arrange classical alp...
The rock audience may be less musically educated or they don't care as much because rock, to most I think, to me 100%, is more about feelings. Or so we see it. I still think there are labels that are better than others.

Jazz is very close to classical in terms of cerebral kind of music and I think labels in that genre matter very much also. I think, because although I like jazz I'm not an expert. Someone else might pipe in on the subject.

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by Audiodude » 17 Jan 2019 16:52

I am no expert on jazz or even close. But since getting back to analog, I have developed a taste for it. I was amazed at the sound of the instruments when listening to Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" and have moved on to Miles Davis, Louis Armstrong, and others. It seems to me that jazz is typically better recorded than pop or rock.

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by Audiodude » 17 Jan 2019 17:59

wrote:
17 Jan 2019 17:08
Audiodude wrote:
17 Jan 2019 16:52
I am no expert on jazz or even close. But since getting back to analog, I have developed a taste for it. I was amazed at the sound of the instruments when listening to Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" and have moved on to Miles Davis, Louis Armstrong, and others. It seems to me that jazz is typically better recorded than pop or rock.
It relies less on special effects, distortion, etc. Often, the best Jazz album is one where it sounds like they are in your living room. I would not want that with a Led Zeppelin album.

So you are hearing instruments and voices, well recorded to sound as real as possible. It's not that they are recorded "better". It's that they are recorded to sound real, live and intimate. (for the most part)

Return to Forever notwithstanding.
Sounds good to me (pun intended). This has been my latest endeavor, to hear music that sounds real. It would seem that this is what has driven me to analog, when I listen to a well made record, I feel like I am in the recording studio with the band or artist. This is all the more so when listening to jazz, that intimacy. There are also times when discovering an artist, such as I had just done with Yehudi Menuhin. I had never heard of him before purchasing a record of Beethoven's Concerto for violin and orchestra op61. The first thing I noticed about this record was the remarkable sound of the violin solo, I was further amazed to find out the recording was made in 1953, and then finding out about Yehudi Menusin's remarkable career. I may have gotten a bit off track here but, it appears that I cannot get much more out of most rock albums by improving my system. Seems as though I have hit the wall, I can get more detail from jazz and classical as I improve my system. Disclaimer: These are my own subjective opinions and are in no way a reflection of the recording industry standards of excellence.

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Re: Classical vs rock, heavy metal for vinyl listening...

Post by JoeE SP9 » 17 Jan 2019 21:29

You guys might want to give Jacintha a listen (Jacintha, Here's To Ben, Groove Note GR1001-2). All her recordings are direct to a two track master. No multi-tracking, dubbing or re-dubbing is done. A minimal number of microphones and a simple tube mixer are used and no post processing is done.

I have Here's To Ben on CD but it's also available on vinyl. You could also try the Best Of Groove Note compilation (Groove Note GRV-1036-3). All the selections were recorded direct to two track masters, as are all Groove Note recordings. Their recordings IMO sound a lot like many of the Direct to Disc LP's I have.

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