How do you separate the art from the artist?

name that tune
vinyl master
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How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by vinyl master » 10 Jan 2019 00:53

I saw this interesting article and I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts on the matter...

https://pitchfork.com/features/overtone ... c-artists/

Do you ever stop listening to certain music after the artist who performed the said music is involved in a scandal, has been arrested, did something unforgivable, etc.? Can you necessarily appreciate the art while shunning the artist or is that not possible? Were you able to compartmentalize the music and artist somehow in your mind? Just curious as to what your thoughts are on this... :-k

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 10 Jan 2019 12:27

Very good question.

But you always seem to come up with good ones. :)

Anyway, 3 artists came up right away in my mind. The first 2 are french and you may not them but yo will know the last one.

1/ Back in my teenage years we had a folk music type singer here in France whose songs were way to the left, politically. Then it came out he had squirreled away his money in Swiss bank accounts.

Today, it doesn't work so good. But back then it was the usual way to hide your earnings from the income tax people... Very disappointing.

Now, I've listened to some of his newer records since and I don't like them. What I don't know is whether it is because of the previous event or because it is just not very good.

2/ Since moving back, I've discovered this band that actually sounds good singing rock'n'roll in french. Very rare thing to me. Then I find out the band went down the drain when the lead man killed his girlfriend. I don't want to go into too much details because the man was tried and convicted but, it seems, both were heavily into drukqs and booze and well...

Anyway, the man did his time, is now free and trying to restart somewhat of a career with some good music. But his shows are being plagued by anti-fans (mostly females) who want him gone. 100% gone.

And I have a hard time with that. This man has a right to earn a living but some of his concerts have been cancelled. Worse, to me, is that if you want to go to one of his concerts, you will be made to feel as a killer just like him as you try to go in...

3/ The last one you all know. I lived for a few years in Augusta, GA and a personality from this area is somewhat controversial. Huge, huge artist not very nice to the women in his life.

But if you know how this man grew up, it is hard not to find excuses to his behavior (although certainly not condoning it) and not listen to his beautiful music .

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by vinyl master » 10 Jan 2019 13:03

VinyldechezPierre wrote:
10 Jan 2019 12:27
Very good question.

But you always seem to come up with good ones. :)
I do, don't I? :wink:

But, I like to ask the interesting stuff and poke around areas no one is looking in...It makes life more fun and challenging...
VinyldechezPierre wrote:
10 Jan 2019 12:27
3/ The last one you all know. I lived for a few years in Augusta, GA and a personality from this area is somewhat controversial. Huge, huge artist not very nice to the women in his life.

But if you know how this man grew up, it is hard not to find excuses to his behavior (although certainly not condoning it) and not listen to his beautiful music .
Would you be talking about this guy perhaps? :-k

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... vil-49247/

That's an old article, but it does talk about some of what he was going through at the time, and I found this interview with the man to be very revealing, when he was let out of prison...


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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by vanakaru » 10 Jan 2019 14:10

With music performer is part of the act both artistically and commercially. Often performers character is part of the sale. If this gets tainted for some reason so does the act.
Even more so with actors where there is just the act(without music).
Some other art forms like visual arts have this much less - you can look at beautiful picture still even if the author has been hung for the murder.
But for your question: How.... I do not pay attention to the artist private life - I am not interested.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by Tonybro » 10 Jan 2019 15:23

To me this is a commercial as well as moral argument.

If I had the artist's material BEFORE everything came out about them, I would potentially still play it but my moral compass might prevent me.

If the artist releases material or the material is still available after any form of major issue then the answer is a plain and simple NO - I'm not buying it to fund someone who is in that position.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by streetpussy » 11 Jan 2019 12:50

I personally think it is bullshit not to separate the art from the artist. It's like hearing a song, falling in love with it immediately, and then deciding the song is garbage moments later when someone tells you the person did or said something bad. Every time I see a picture I like am I supposed to google the photographer to make sure they haven't done or said anything sh**ty in their life? Just because I like the music, photographs, paintings etc someone makes doesn't mean I have to like them. That's not what art is about. But if that matters to you, go ahead and send me all your David Bowie records since he was allegedly a statutory rapist.
Last edited by streetpussy on 11 Jan 2019 13:12, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 11 Jan 2019 12:58

streetpussy wrote:
11 Jan 2019 12:50
I personally think it is bullshit not to separate the art from the artist. It's like hearing a song, falling in love with it immediately, and then deciding the song is garbage moments later when someone tells you the person did or said something bad. Every time I see a picture I like am I supposed to google the photographer to make sure they haven't done or said anything sh**ty in their life? Just because I like the music, photographs, paintings etc someone makes doesn't mean I have to like them. That's not what art is about. I live in the most overly PC place on planet earth and this s**t drives me insane.
Totalky agree.

Only problem is that, today, thanks to the internet I guess, we know way too much about everyone. And, frankly, the more you know about most people the harder it is to like them.

:(

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by Tinkaroo » 11 Jan 2019 12:58

This stuff has been going on for years.

Just look at what happened when John Lennon said something to the effect that they were more popular than Jesus in an interview. They were holding Beatles record burning rallies in some places!

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by Coffee Phil » 11 Jan 2019 18:16

Hi ,

Mr. Five By Five appeared to know all about this.



Dina Washington had a lot of issues. I'm told even her kids would have nothing to do with her. I heard that one of her former husbands was asked in an interview "How was being married to Dina Washington?". His reply: "I never smiled once". With all that, I still can't see how any man could help himself after hearing this:



Phil

wrote:
11 Jan 2019 13:23
streetpussy wrote:
11 Jan 2019 12:50
I personally think it is bullshit not to separate the art from the artist. It's like hearing a song, falling in love with it immediately, and then deciding the song is garbage moments later when someone tells you the person did or said something bad. Every time I see a picture I like am I supposed to google the photographer to make sure they haven't done or said anything sh**ty in their life? Just because I like the music, photographs, paintings etc someone makes doesn't mean I have to like them. That's not what art is about. But if that matters to you, go ahead and send me all your David Bowie records since he was allegedly a statutory rapist.
Would you still enjoy sleeping with your hot wife if you knew she was sleeping with the neighbor when you were at work? That's sort of, in a way, how I see separating the person from the art. Can't really be done. Sure, I can look the other way if she thinks the neighbor is cute. But a line can be crossed.

Same with the art and the artist.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by vanakaru » 11 Jan 2019 18:32

wrote:
11 Jan 2019 13:23

Would you still enjoy sleeping with your hot wife if you knew she was sleeping with the neighbor when you were at work?
Same with the art and the artist.
I disagree with this comparison.

As with art you do not own the creator of the product but just the illusion, copy, emotion of the product.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by philbrown » 11 Jan 2019 19:56

This can be a problem for those of us in the business. If you don't personally like somebody it can be hard to spend months trying to make good art with them.
For instance, Tom Cruise is a real glassbowl and I can't watch a movie he's in.
Phil Brown

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by dysmike » 11 Jan 2019 21:56

wrote:
11 Jan 2019 20:26

My point is that who the artist is, in your mind, affects how you see their art. It's one reason I was never a big fan of Hitler's paintings. And the primary point of my original analogy is that it's hard to get that she's having sex with your neighbor out of your mind, impacting the enjoyment of the act itself, not about owning the artist.
His 'art' was horrible, no matter how you slice it. Bad, beyond bad. Like bad tourist area 'art' bad.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by vanakaru » 11 Jan 2019 22:17

I am puzzled still: you can see the act of your hot wife at the neighbours as a form of art? My respect! And I thought that you are treating her as a property.

BTW with Hitler is just the opposite: people who admire him as a great leader love his dilettante paintings because they think that everything about him is great. And the other way around if I think that one or two art-pieces are great I would never think that everything this artist does is great as well. Even less that the artist as a person may be great.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by zwhita » 11 Jan 2019 22:41

For me art appreciation is a form of consumption. I also make my own music, although it's more out of curiosity and mild amusement and not a passion, hence it's usually kind of bland and terrible.

So pairing the art with the artist to me is less like finding out who else your hot trophy wife is sleeping with, and more like what that pig did all day in the pen to make it taste good when I ate it in my BLT for lunch yesterday.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 12 Jan 2019 14:26

dysmike wrote:
11 Jan 2019 21:56
His 'art' was horrible, no matter how you slice it. Bad, beyond bad. Like bad tourist area 'art' bad.
This sounds like someone who can't separate the two persons. Sorry.

I'm no fan of AH or his actions but I don't agree his work was that bad. Not that I would buy any of it, don't see how anyone could, really, but as an artist myself I see the main problem with his art, today, as the person. Not the art.

Yesteryear, his art didn't sell/interest any gallery because who knows what/why...

Yesteryear my own art didn't sell or interest anyone yet I didn't become a butcher of humanity.

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