help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

the thin end of the wedge
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hempdiddy
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help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by hempdiddy » 11 Jan 2019 02:42

I'm refurbing my dad's old Sanyo TP-1020 which is loaded with (probably the original) Stanton D61 from the mid-70s. I researched acceptable replacement needles for this cartridge body and bought two replacement models from known sellers on weebay. I bought the 600E and the D6071A which are supposed to be acceptable.

There is a problem. I loaded both of these replacements in today and something just isn't right. Both needles accept 2gr of force so thats what I set the arm at. However, the sound is slightly distorted and wobbly ... and the worst of it is they both produce a fantastic rumble in the bottom frequencies. A particular passage of guitar outro has sort of a repeatedly stuck open low E string that these needles shake the whole floor with. There is a droning rumble and wild action coming from the woofers that is wayyyyyy over pronounced during this passage.

What did I do wrong? Both of these needles fit right into the cartridge no problem. I will say that the old stylus seems to "poke down" more than the new ones. Like "down and out" from the stylus body. The new stylus are much more near the body of the stylus. Is that normal?

What have I done wrong?!?!

Spinner45
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by Spinner45 » 11 Jan 2019 04:10

Rumble and subsonic noises are usually cured or reduced by using (if available) the low-cut filter on the preamp/amp.
Also, reducing the bass control can help.
Otherwise, a sharp-cutoff type filter is needed in the audio chain, like a Sallen-Key type filter.
No one needs to "hear" power-robbing subsonics, nor have their woofers pumping to ruin what you "can" hear.

Alec124c41
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by Alec124c41 » 11 Jan 2019 05:05

Are you familiar with setting up turntables?
There is a manual for yours here: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sanyo/tp-1020.shtml
I'm thinking that the arm might not have been balanced before setting tracking force.
Also, make sure that the turntable is not being affected by the output of the speakers. Acoustic feedback is a common problem, if they are not isolated.

Cheers,
Alec

hempdiddy
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by hempdiddy » 11 Jan 2019 14:16

Spinner45 wrote:
11 Jan 2019 04:10
Rumble and subsonic noises are usually cured or reduced by using (if available) the low-cut filter ...
No.

hempdiddy
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by hempdiddy » 11 Jan 2019 14:19

Alec124c41 wrote:
11 Jan 2019 05:05
Are you familiar with setting up turntables?
There is a manual for yours here: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sanyo/tp-1020.shtml
I'm thinking that the arm might not have been balanced before setting tracking force.
Also, make sure that the turntable is not being affected by the output of the speakers. Acoustic feedback is a common problem, if they are not isolated.

Cheers,
Alec
Yes, I followed the instruction in the manual step by step. The turntable also is not being affected by the output of the speakers. The problems I describe only occur when I swap out the old needle for the new. Are these needles compatible? Why don't I experience the problems with the old needle?

Spinner45
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by Spinner45 » 11 Jan 2019 15:33

hempdiddy wrote:
11 Jan 2019 14:16
Spinner45 wrote:
11 Jan 2019 04:10
Rumble and subsonic noises are usually cured or reduced by using (if available) the low-cut filter ...
No.
No?
Please explain.

patient_ot
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by patient_ot » 11 Jan 2019 17:18

What exact styli did you buy? Ultra cheap generics?

Did you double check the tracking force with a scale?

How close are the speakers to the turntable?

Is the record warped?

tep392
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by tep392 » 11 Jan 2019 17:44

hempdiddy wrote:
11 Jan 2019 14:19
Alec124c41 wrote:
11 Jan 2019 05:05
Are you familiar with setting up turntables?
There is a manual for yours here: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sanyo/tp-1020.shtml
I'm thinking that the arm might not have been balanced before setting tracking force.
Also, make sure that the turntable is not being affected by the output of the speakers. Acoustic feedback is a common problem, if they are not isolated.

Cheers,
Alec
Yes, I followed the instruction in the manual step by step. The turntable also is not being affected by the output of the speakers. The problems I describe only occur when I swap out the old needle for the new. Are these needles compatible? Why don't I experience the problems with the old needle?
One difference between the old and new stylus could be the stiffness. The old needle could have become stiffer with age, which would make it less sensitive to low frequency disturbances that are causing your woofers to pump. Try setting the tracking force to 3g, which is in the middle of the range and see if it improves. You might have some rumble in the table that is being amplified with the new stylus. Check the table bearings are clean and have fresh lube.

Spinner45
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by Spinner45 » 11 Jan 2019 17:46

tep392 wrote:
11 Jan 2019 17:44
hempdiddy wrote:
11 Jan 2019 14:19
Alec124c41 wrote:
11 Jan 2019 05:05
Are you familiar with setting up turntables?
There is a manual for yours here: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sanyo/tp-1020.shtml
I'm thinking that the arm might not have been balanced before setting tracking force.
Also, make sure that the turntable is not being affected by the output of the speakers. Acoustic feedback is a common problem, if they are not isolated.

Cheers,
Alec
Yes, I followed the instruction in the manual step by step. The turntable also is not being affected by the output of the speakers. The problems I describe only occur when I swap out the old needle for the new. Are these needles compatible? Why don't I experience the problems with the old needle?
One difference between the old and new stylus could be the stiffness. The old needle could have become stiffer with age, which would make it less sensitive to low frequency disturbances that are causing your woofers to pump. Try setting the tracking force to 3g, which is in the middle of the range and see if it improves. You might have some rumble in the table that is being amplified with the new stylus. Check the table bearings are clean and have fresh lube.
That's all good advice. :wink:

hempdiddy
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by hempdiddy » 11 Jan 2019 18:16

tep392 wrote:
11 Jan 2019 17:44

One difference between the old and new stylus could be the stiffness. The old needle could have become stiffer with age, which would make it less sensitive to low frequency disturbances that are causing your woofers to pump. Try setting the tracking force to 3g, which is in the middle of the range and see if it improves. You might have some rumble in the table that is being amplified with the new stylus. Check the table bearings are clean and have fresh lube.

Yes, I will increase the tracking force tonight and let you know how it goes, thanks.

The table otherwise is fine. The refurb that I just completed was a full teardown. An inconsistent speed was the main fault and the symptom had me checking every cap and cleaning every pot and switch. The motor was opened up and a thorough cleaning/lubing was had. The problem didn't subside until I rebuilt the speed selector switch (which was a laborious and tedious task). I don't think those type of switches were meant to be opened up, be I got through it and she's a beaut' now!

hempdiddy
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Re: help I screwed up my Stanton D61 swap =-(

Post by hempdiddy » 12 Jan 2019 21:31

Turns out the tone-arm/cart/settings were all OK. The cabinet next to the speakers (where the turn table sits) was touching the speaker and causing vibrations. Solved by moving the turn table cabinet 1/2" away from speaker. DUH.

Thanks.

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