Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
-
- member
- Posts: 195
- Joined: 16 May 2015 11:01
Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
I recently changed the Bias cart on my Planar 3 with RB300 arm, as I wasn't crazy about it.
I put on one of my favourite vintage cartridges, an Excel ES70EX4 with an aftermarket elliptical stylus (I broke the Shibata! :oops: ).
It is a couple of millimeters taller than the Bias, and sounds good on the arm. Except there seems to be more surface noise than this cart should transfer. I tried a thicker rubber mat and thinner felt mat but there wasn't any difference with the stock one, so it went back on. The vacuum-cleaned records play quietly on a Thorens 145 and a Technics SL-D2.
I have been reading that people recommend shims when swapping from stock Rega carts to different ones. I can't imagine there are that many there are the same height or shorter - only my Linn ASAK is shorter, of about a dozen I have.
Wouldn't a taller cart with shims make for an even more exaplggerated tail-down arm? I can't imagine how a shim would remedy VTA and stylus rake angle, unless it was a crazy short cart.
Please explain where I am making a mistake in my thinking, or if the recommendations for shims are totally off base ("but if I read It on the internet it must be true!").
I put on one of my favourite vintage cartridges, an Excel ES70EX4 with an aftermarket elliptical stylus (I broke the Shibata! :oops: ).
It is a couple of millimeters taller than the Bias, and sounds good on the arm. Except there seems to be more surface noise than this cart should transfer. I tried a thicker rubber mat and thinner felt mat but there wasn't any difference with the stock one, so it went back on. The vacuum-cleaned records play quietly on a Thorens 145 and a Technics SL-D2.
I have been reading that people recommend shims when swapping from stock Rega carts to different ones. I can't imagine there are that many there are the same height or shorter - only my Linn ASAK is shorter, of about a dozen I have.
Wouldn't a taller cart with shims make for an even more exaplggerated tail-down arm? I can't imagine how a shim would remedy VTA and stylus rake angle, unless it was a crazy short cart.
Please explain where I am making a mistake in my thinking, or if the recommendations for shims are totally off base ("but if I read It on the internet it must be true!").
-
- senior member
- Posts: 339
- Joined: 18 May 2016 11:17
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
When fitting a taller cartridge some fit an arm height adjustment spacer that fits between the plinth and tone arm which is what I think is what some refer to as a shim. This will raise the rear of the arm so the arm is reasonabley parallel when the higher cart is fitted.
-
- long player
- Posts: 1427
- Joined: 23 Nov 2015 21:17
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
I have a 2mm VTA shim installed at the base of my arm to compensate for a taller non Rega cartridge. As noted in prior reply not to be confused with "headshell shims", these are normally for adding mass to an arm to better suit low compliance cartridges. Here your thinking is correct as a headshell shim is typically inserted between cartridge and headshell, thus adding height. So if you had a 2 mm taller cartridge and a 1 mm headshell shim it would be appropriate to use a 3 mm VTA shim.
On general subject of VTA shims these don't have to be an exact match. I target a tolerance of +/- 1 mm.
On general subject of VTA shims these don't have to be an exact match. I target a tolerance of +/- 1 mm.
-
- member
- Posts: 124
- Joined: 22 May 2011 10:32
- Location: Fife, Scotland
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
Rega Carts are 14mm in height, if the Excel ES70EX4 is 2mm higher then you need to Shim the armbase with a 2mm Shim to keep arm level. Below is a picture of a 2mm Shim installed at the armbase.
An easy way to check VTA is correct is with a piece of lined paper and looking at eye level ;)
Rega RB300 with 2mm Shim:
https://i.imgur.com/gjTFomB.jpg
VTA Check
https://i.imgur.com/O3T8daP.jpg
An easy way to check VTA is correct is with a piece of lined paper and looking at eye level ;)
Rega RB300 with 2mm Shim:
https://i.imgur.com/gjTFomB.jpg
VTA Check
https://i.imgur.com/O3T8daP.jpg
-
- member
- Posts: 195
- Joined: 16 May 2015 11:01
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
Thanks for the tips, but.
Can't believe I've never thought of the lined paper check.
I have read stuff about the armbase shim needing to be about a mm higher than the additional cartridge height. So if my cart is 3mm taller than the Rega cart, I should use a 4mm shim. Because of the length of the arm and gravity and all that. Thoughts?
Can't believe I've never thought of the lined paper check.
I have read stuff about the armbase shim needing to be about a mm higher than the additional cartridge height. So if my cart is 3mm taller than the Rega cart, I should use a 4mm shim. Because of the length of the arm and gravity and all that. Thoughts?
-
- member
- Posts: 245
- Joined: 21 Jul 2018 01:20
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
I think if the arm is deflecting based on the weight of the cart, it's got bigger issues. So, nope I don't believe you have to shim more than the delta height.
-
- member
- Posts: 28
- Joined: 04 Jul 2015 14:49
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
My RP10 arm (RB2000) is fitted with an Ortofon Quintet Black S, deeper than a Rega cartridge, and sounds superb.
Without any shims, the cartridge body is parallel with the record - although bear in mind that there will always be variances in the VTA when playing a180gm or "normal" weight vinyl.
Without any shims, the cartridge body is parallel with the record - although bear in mind that there will always be variances in the VTA when playing a180gm or "normal" weight vinyl.
-
- senior member
- Posts: 652
- Joined: 20 Feb 2013 22:11
- Location: A Kentish man ...
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
-
- member
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 09 Mar 2011 20:05
- Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
-
- senior member
- Posts: 652
- Joined: 20 Feb 2013 22:11
- Location: A Kentish man ...
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
At the time I was using the Black it was 2mm , but I don't really enjoy the Black that much so I don't use it now.
I've tried several times but I find too bright and 'CD' like if that makes sense?
I know loads of other folks love the Black to bits but I just couldn't get it to sing properly , I'll try again another day I'm sure!
I've tried several times but I find too bright and 'CD' like if that makes sense?
I know loads of other folks love the Black to bits but I just couldn't get it to sing properly , I'll try again another day I'm sure!
-
- member
- Posts: 195
- Joined: 16 May 2015 11:01
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
The Black is rarely described as bright and cd-like (if you think a Grado sounds like that, NEVER try the AT95E!). I wonder if it is setup-related? Tail high? Not aligned adequately?Pikey wrote: ↑13 Jan 2019 12:07At the time I was using the Black it was 2mm , but I don't really enjoy the Black that much so I don't use it now.
I've tried several times but I find too bright and 'CD' like if that makes sense?
I know loads of other folks love the Black to bits but I just couldn't get it to sing properly , I'll try again another day I'm sure!
I upgraded the stylus in the Green, to an 8MZ, because it was so midrange and warm that I wanted a bit more resolution, and more controlled frequency extremes. I would still call it a slightly warm sound.
-
- senior member
- Posts: 652
- Joined: 20 Feb 2013 22:11
- Location: A Kentish man ...
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
Well, partly motivated by your good self Doc I've just re-fitted the 2M Black to my RP6 and I'm going to give it another go! ... currently fitted with a 2mm shim , let's see if I can get this sorted out!doctor fuse wrote: ↑13 Jan 2019 17:27The Black is rarely described as bright and cd-like (if you think a Grado sounds like that, NEVER try the AT95E!). I wonder if it is setup-related? Tail high? Not aligned adequately?
-
- member
- Posts: 195
- Joined: 16 May 2015 11:01
Re: Shims for a taller cartridge seems wrong?
Oops, you were talking about the 2M Black, which I don't know.
Cartridge swapping is fun, even on one piece arms.
Cartridge swapping is fun, even on one piece arms.