I quit, no more new vinyl.

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Sterling1
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Sterling1 » 01 Jan 2019 12:49

audiopile wrote:
01 Jan 2019 00:26
This doesn't mirror my experience with new vinyl -sure -I've had some notable clinkers (returned three Kind of Blue's in a row for really far off center center holes) - but in general even the not sourced from master tape/ semi-dubious European pressings are really clean and quiet. They may not be the best recordings I've got of this same performance -but notably fewer clicks n pops. I sold records starting in the late 60's and running thru the 80's - returned thousands of LP's deemed defective because of excessive clicks n pops . The pressing plants cranked 'em out - I suspect plates are replaced at a much lower count today than they were back then. And at least here in the salt n snow tires belt -noise is very often static discharges -try a anti-static brush added to your rig. And 60 years of listening to records means I've developed the analog perception filter that most of us ol f@rts bring to the listening experience.
Seems, from reading every post on this thread, some here are somewhat satisfied with their new vinyl purchases, while others are somewhat dissatisfied with their new vinyl purchases. I am totally dissatisfied. In 2018 I returned 6 albums back to sellers for refund. These albums were not snap, crackle, and pop free. Now, some do not expect their LP purchases to be pop free, but I do, since pop free is not an unreasonable expectation. After all, many have said here and in other threads on this forum that they have purchased plenty of new vinyl which is indeed pop free. Bottom-line is it all needs to be pop free. None of us should accept anything less.

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 01 Jan 2019 13:29

geoffcb wrote:
01 Jan 2019 02:43
I always treat new vinyl like old.
And you should.

I was told a long, long time ago that a new vinyl still has crap on its surface from the manufacturing process and that it should be cleaned before 1st play.

I don't replace the paper sleeve but I'm thinking it's not a bad idea.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Sterling1 » 01 Jan 2019 13:50

VinyldechezPierre wrote:
01 Jan 2019 13:29
geoffcb wrote:
01 Jan 2019 02:43
I always treat new vinyl like old.
And you should.

I was told a long, long time ago that a new vinyl still has crap on its surface from the manufacturing process and that it should be cleaned before 1st play.

I don't replace the paper sleeve but I'm thinking it's not a bad idea.
In viewing some recent YouTube videos of the record production process it does not appear that their is any "crap" on the record surface as it is packaged. What "crap" is it which must be removed?

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 01 Jan 2019 14:41

Sterling1 wrote:
31 Dec 2018 20:15
Digitizing is dealing with it, the it being elimination of pops. Not dealing with it, would be to accept the LP condition and attempt to enjoy it, while being distracted by pops. There might be a need to do that on a used LP if the music is entertaining and there is no interest in digitizing; but, this story is about new LPs, and, for me, the best way to deal with pops on new LPs is just to get a refund. And, yes, I use a declicker, sometimes just in area of pops at the strength necessary to remove the pop. On LPs with pops galore, I'll declick the entire album. The digitized file goes into my iTunes Library where it can be enjoyed without distraction, or inconvenience; plus, I can apply equalization to the recording to taste. Oh, and if I want to enjoy the complete LP experience, which includes pops, I can always put the offending LP on my turntable. :lol:
I was asking about your declicking because I believe most people use it the wrong way: all the way through. Much easier than going after each click but it cuts out some of the music. You're doing it the right way although you still do some albums all the way through if I got you right.

In that case, I would look for a different copy. If it's not a rare album, of course.

But since we are talking about new LPs, I have to say there two types of those: new LPs of new music being put out on vinyl only (yes, plenty of those) and i've had no problem with those. Then we have re-issues... And that's another story. Although I have had very few problems with the type either. Even with cheap (price wise) collections.

The main problem I've had with re-issues is with the sound, not unwanted noise. I imagine that has to do with the source. Plus, let's be honest, the quality of the engineers dealing with the project. But that happened also in the grand old days of the vinyl.

I have a record I bought 4 copies of before deciding the horrible sound was an engineering problem from the start.

To get back to noise, I wash all my records, new and old, and I have little noise problem.

Now, I'll admit that I easily ignore things I find annoying. So, yes, a few clcks and pops here and there, I don't hear.

I don't register billboards on the side of the highway; I don't register ads in magazines, etc.

So that, yes, a few clicks here and there, don't register either.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by dysmike » 01 Jan 2019 14:52

Sterling1 wrote:
01 Jan 2019 13:50
In viewing some recent YouTube videos of the record production process it does not appear that their is any "crap" on the record surface as it is packaged. What "crap" is it which must be removed?
There is always a release agent in press molding.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Sterling1 » 01 Jan 2019 16:00

VinyldechezPierre wrote:
01 Jan 2019 14:41
Sterling1 wrote:
31 Dec 2018 20:15
Digitizing is dealing with it, the it being elimination of pops. Not dealing with it, would be to accept the LP condition and attempt to enjoy it, while being distracted by pops. There might be a need to do that on a used LP if the music is entertaining and there is no interest in digitizing; but, this story is about new LPs, and, for me, the best way to deal with pops on new LPs is just to get a refund. And, yes, I use a declicker, sometimes just in area of pops at the strength necessary to remove the pop. On LPs with pops galore, I'll declick the entire album. The digitized file goes into my iTunes Library where it can be enjoyed without distraction, or inconvenience; plus, I can apply equalization to the recording to taste. Oh, and if I want to enjoy the complete LP experience, which includes pops, I can always put the offending LP on my turntable. :lol:


I was asking about your declicking because I believe most people use it the wrong way: all the way through. Much easier than going after each click but it cuts out some of the music. You're doing it the right way although you still do some albums all the way through if I got you right.

In that case, I would look for a different copy. If it's not a rare album, of course.

But since we are talking about new LPs, I have to say there two types of those: new LPs of new music being put out on vinyl only (yes, plenty of those) and i've had no problem with those. Then we have re-issues... And that's another story. Although I have had very few problems with the type either. Even with cheap (price wise) collections.

The main problem I've had with re-issues is with the sound, not unwanted noise. I imagine that has to do with the source. Plus, let's be honest, the quality of the engineers dealing with the project. But that happened also in the grand old days of the vinyl.

I have a record I bought 4 copies of before deciding the horrible sound was an engineering problem from the start.

To get back to noise, I wash all my records, new and old, and I have little noise problem.

Now, I'll admit that I easily ignore things I find annoying. So, yes, a few clcks and pops here and there, I don't hear.

I don't register billboards on the side of the highway; I don't register ads in magazines, etc.

So that, yes, a few clicks here and there, don't register either.
Since new LPs have either virgin or ravished origins, who knows what procurement process and/or procedure will assure the best outcome. That's what I meant when I earlier paraphrased Forrest Gump, "Mamma always said buying records is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get". At any rate, for the most part, my LP involvement has been the digitizing of LP's I've collected before the advent of CDs. Just declicking the whole album seems to get a result which is usually not indistinguishable from the LP, except for the digitization's distraction free condition. Now, my recent indulgence in new productions, either re-issue, remastered, or just new material was prompted by glorious praise from audiophiles for new. This made me think, I need to explore this since who does not want a better experience. But, now having purchased all sorts of new: the re-issues, remastered, and just new, I have not realized the nervonic state of mind about it as audiophiles have. In other words, CDs over all still seem better, and multi-channel SACDs are so awesome as to be where I will put my money from this point, instead of anymore skirt chasing of higly praised LPs. BTW, I liked your post. You are a critical thinker. Obviously not a milleanial.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by plyscds » 01 Jan 2019 16:52

Every recorded entertainment format we have today is in one critically important way exactly like 78rpm records --- for the most part, for most people, the recordings will outlast the means to play them. We are already seeing that if there is not a profitable reason to keep making once popular playback equipment, new replacements, especially quality replacements, will not be there. Nobody cares anymore about transferring 8mm or Super-8 home movies to video tape. Films on old analog movie theaters used to have splices and projector changes, sometimes a bit sloppy, in them. It used to be seen as a minor miracle that any recorded media was there to be experienced at all. And that includes the phenomena of printed books. Yes, there are standards media suppliers should be expected to meet, but sometimes we all, including this person, lose track of the fact that to people of only a few hundred years ago it's an eye opening wonder that the stuff we take for granted even works at all. When it does.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Sterling1 » 01 Jan 2019 17:16

plyscds wrote:
01 Jan 2019 16:52
Every recorded entertainment format we have today is in one critically important way exactly like 78rpm records --- for the most part, for most people, the recordings will outlast the means to play them. We are already seeing that if there is not a profitable reason to keep making once popular playback equipment, new replacements, especially quality replacements, will not be there. Nobody cares anymore about transferring 8mm or Super-8 home movies to video tape. Films on old analog movie theaters used to have splices and projector changes, sometimes a bit sloppy, in them. It used to be seen as a minor miracle that any recorded media was there to be experienced at all. And that includes the phenomena of printed books. Yes, there are standards media suppliers should be expected to meet, but sometimes we all, including this person, lose track of the fact that to people of only a few hundred years ago it's an eye opening wonder that the stuff we take for granted even works at all. When it does.
Sure, recorded music and movies are a modern marvel for sure; yet, since the technology today permits a pop free experience, I want nothing less. Mediocre does not satisfy and business today which deliver mediocre are well poised to be disposed.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by audiopile » 01 Jan 2019 17:45

I use a Sweet Vinyl SC-1 or SC-2 to play most of my vinyl thru. I got them simply because I have purchased thousands (and redonated thousands) of thrift store records - I have hundreds of LP's that are noisy and contain not just good music - but GREAT music. So I buy 'em for 99cents and don't expect perfection -wet clean and vacume- but the Sugar Cubes sure do help and I don't hear them doing any digital evil while they do it. But there are always a couple of tables that aren't runnin thru da 'cubes - I find most new vinyl remarkably noise free -again- much quieter in terms of ticks n pops than what I had to sell at retail in the 60's-70'-80's. But I had customers convert to CD and would never consider going back - imperfection is just part of vinyl playback -as some of us keep posting. As long as you treasure and enjoy music -stream it , play styrene 45's .78's .LP's ,CD's SACD's -if you enjoy the music -that's ALL that counts.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by sberger » 01 Jan 2019 20:20

There is new vinyl being produced with the highest quality standards. One just needs to know the labels that do that, and also researching a title before you buy can help one avoid pitfalls. Of course, static, dirt, etc., will produce the type of issues the OP had. Most of my vinyl(several thousand) produces hardly any noise at all, and I'm not obsessive about cleaning. I have old turntables but they are set up correctly and I clean my stylus in addition to giving a quick dry brush clean over the lp before playing. No doubt the joy of vinyl for me is the sound, and if there's an occasional pop/click I hardly even notice anymore. It's just part of the package.

And yes I play cd's and stream digital files too. All good.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by vinyl master » 02 Jan 2019 05:55

dysmike wrote:
01 Jan 2019 14:52
Sterling1 wrote:
01 Jan 2019 13:50
In viewing some recent YouTube videos of the record production process it does not appear that their is any "crap" on the record surface as it is packaged. What "crap" is it which must be removed?
There is always a release agent in press molding.
Nobody's heard of "mold release compound"? REALLY??? :?

I always just clean my records anyway before play, no matter what...I take no chances! Clean your records like you clean your hands...Make it a general rule, and you won't have to worry!

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 02 Jan 2019 16:24

plyscds wrote:
01 Jan 2019 16:52
Every recorded entertainment format we have today is in one critically important way exactly like 78rpm records --- for the most part, for most people, the recordings will outlast the means to play them. We are already seeing that if there is not a profitable reason to keep making once popular playback equipment, new replacements, especially quality replacements, will not be there. Nobody cares anymore about transferring 8mm or Super-8 home movies to video tape. Films on old analog movie theaters used to have splices and projector changes, sometimes a bit sloppy, in them. It used to be seen as a minor miracle that any recorded media was there to be experienced at all. And that includes the phenomena of printed books. Yes, there are standards media suppliers should be expected to meet, but sometimes we all, including this person, lose track of the fact that to people of only a few hundred years ago it's an eye opening wonder that the stuff we take for granted even works at all. When it does.
Never would have thought of saying that...

But, yes, beautiful. :D

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Sterling1 » 02 Jan 2019 16:35

vinyl master wrote:
02 Jan 2019 05:55
dysmike wrote:
01 Jan 2019 14:52
Sterling1 wrote:
01 Jan 2019 13:50
In viewing some recent YouTube videos of the record production process it does not appear that their is any "crap" on the record surface as it is packaged. What "crap" is it which must be removed?
There is always a release agent in press molding.
Nobody's heard of "mold release compound"? REALLY??? :?

I always just clean my records anyway before play, no matter what...I take no chances! Clean your records like you clean your hands...Make it a general rule, and you won't have to worry!
Yes, I've heard of mold release agent. And, given that mold release agent is the accepted terminology used to describe the product, the poster, using the word "crap" as a substitute, crappily communicated his complaint, not me, from not understanding the CRAP he was referring to. :lol:
Last edited by Sterling1 on 02 Jan 2019 17:07, edited 1 time in total.

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 02 Jan 2019 16:51

vinyl master wrote:
02 Jan 2019 05:55
Nobody's heard of "mold release compound"? REALLY??? :?
Actually, NO. Never heard of that term. Well, maybe I did, and forgot. :oops:

But I've experienced it as an OTR driver when delivering trailer loads of new tires. Same kinda crap although on a different level.

First thing to do after the unloading was to get to a truck stop to get into a shower and change clothes...

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by dysmike » 02 Jan 2019 16:55

VinyldechezPierre wrote:
02 Jan 2019 16:51
vinyl master wrote:
02 Jan 2019 05:55
Nobody's heard of "mold release compound"? REALLY??? :?
Actually, NO. Never heard of that term. Well, maybe I did, and forgot. :oops:

But I've experienced it as an OTR driver when delivering trailer loads of new tires. Same kinda crap although on a different level.

First thing to do after the unloading was to get to a truck stop to get into a shower and change clothes...
It's amazing how embedded it gets in the rubber in tires.. You can totally tell when it's been worn off on track tires.

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