Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

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pwreimers
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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 01 May 2017 15:00

Tinkaroo wrote:I don't think it could be fixed with a dremel. A dentist would be too expensive and would probably want to work on your teeth just for the torture and extra profit aspect of it. :wink:
That's funny!

I can't think of a way that could be modified. It would be hard to shape the underside surface flat, etc. I wouldn't be able to see what I was doing, at all. If I had a bare plastic piece it's possible I could do a decent job, as I could get at that surface better from the top side with the shield is missing. Plus, there's the problem of shaping plastic, which can be harder than metal due to the way that plastic chips cling to the base.

The shield is another difference; the original looks like brass plate, and the after market looks to be copper foil.

Pete

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by jdubbie » 02 May 2017 13:27

I notice on a familiar site that the price just dropped on these aftermarket TK12 sleds from one of the vendors. Speculating here, but I wonder if there is some intent to move out old stock before a new, improved version with proper clearance for the lever is introduced. One can hope, but in the meantime Buyer Beware. Again, this is just me wondering.

jdubbie

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by Tinkaroo » 02 May 2017 13:59

jdubbie wrote:I notice on a familiar site that the price just dropped on these aftermarket TK12 sleds from one of the vendors. Speculating here, but I wonder if there is some intent to move out old stock before a new, improved version with proper clearance for the lever is introduced. One can hope, but in the meantime Buyer Beware. Again, this is just me wondering.

jdubbie
It could just be a sales tactic, and the skeptic in me says seeing is
believing.

If we had inside knowledge that this problem has been brought to their attention and they were taking it seriously then I would share your optimism. Even if a little bird told someone, as long as the bird is trustworthy. I trust robins and cardinals, not so much blue jays.

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by jdubbie » 03 May 2017 00:01

Tinkaroo wrote:
jdubbie wrote:I notice on a familiar site that the price just dropped on these aftermarket TK12 sleds from one of the vendors. Speculating here, but I wonder if there is some intent to move out old stock before a new, improved version with proper clearance for the lever is introduced. One can hope, but in the meantime Buyer Beware. Again, this is just me wondering.

jdubbie
It could just be a sales tactic, and the skeptic in me says seeing is
believing.

If we had inside knowledge that this problem has been brought to their attention and they were taking it seriously then I would share your optimism. Even if a little bird told someone, as long as the bird is trustworthy. I trust robins and cardinals, not so much blue jays.
It's not exactly optimism -- the opposite, really -- since no seller is acknowledging the design flaw, which would make them liable for broken tonearms, as well as holders of unsaleable stock.

jdubbie

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by vinyl master » 03 May 2017 07:05

This is all interesting...I was tempted to buy one of those aftermarket sleds, but thankfully, I have FOUR original sleds, and I got them at reasonable prices...This has given me food for thought...In the meantime, if you guys see any good deals on the original sleds, get 'em while you can! :wink:

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 03 May 2017 07:57

vinyl master wrote:This is all interesting...I was tempted to buy one of those aftermarket sleds, but thankfully, I have FOUR original sleds, and I got them at reasonable prices...This has given me food for thought...In the meantime, if you guys see any good deals on the original sleds, get 'em while you can! :wink:
Dude... FOUR! You planned it right.

There are times I consider buying the turntable just to get the sled.

With any luck, P.L. will change his design, tell us he's changed it and sample one to me...!

Also, I see there's somebody else on eBait who's copied HIM. He's the one who might change the design. Who knows, maybe he copied the original carrier properly and has a better product! If anybody's purchased his product, it would be most excellent to know your findings.

Very interesting, indeed, vinyl master!

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by vinyl master » 03 May 2017 09:53

pwreimers wrote:
vinyl master wrote:This is all interesting...I was tempted to buy one of those aftermarket sleds, but thankfully, I have FOUR original sleds, and I got them at reasonable prices...This has given me food for thought...In the meantime, if you guys see any good deals on the original sleds, get 'em while you can! :wink:
Dude... FOUR! You planned it right.

There are times I consider buying the turntable just to get the sled.

With any luck, P.L. will change his design, tell us he's changed it and sample one to me...!

Also, I see there's somebody else on eBait who's copied HIM. He's the one who might change the design. Who knows, maybe he copied the original carrier properly and has a better product! If anybody's purchased his product, it would be most excellent to know your findings.

Very interesting, indeed, vinyl master!
Yep! One came with my 1009F, another with my 1009SK, another with my 1019, and the last one was also got cheaply online...

29586
35642
32612

Keep in mind that many times, these "junker" tables are missing their headshells, so buyer beware...Still, you can sometimes snag a good deal on the turntable just to get the sled and other assorted parts...In any case, I'll be interested to hear how things progress with this...

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by jdubbie » 03 May 2017 13:26

pwreimers wrote: Also, I see there's somebody else on eBait who's copied HIM. He's the one who might change the design. Who knows, maybe he copied the original carrier properly and has a better product! If anybody's purchased his product, it would be most excellent to know your findings.
Might be the second vendor I used. Yes, the design flaw is there as well.

I think Dual put a lot of faith in plastic. It is possible that there is a difference between the 1015 arms and the 1019 arms in this respect, as there are certainly other differences. So far we only know of damage to 1015 arms.

The disadvantage of the original sleds in my experience is in the design of the connectors which go on the cartridge pins. These are flat, three-sided, and open on one side, so there is less contact with the pins than with round connectors. These are notoriously difficult to get clean and they have always been the culprit when a channel drops out in my experience. I find them a worse problem than the leaf spring contacts.

I would even consider modifying the tonearm clamp in order to be able to use the new sleds with greater assurance. The problem is that the metal used in the end might break before it would bend much. I'd rather come up with a way to remove some material from the sled.

I'm also not even certain that it is a problem if you don't swap sleds much (i.e., to listen to a variety of carts). However, I swap a lot.

The technical term for this situation is "bummer."

jdubbie

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by mirt54 » 18 Dec 2018 21:35

Hey, just wondering if these faulty designed sleds, headshells, cartridge carriers, whatever you want to call them are still the design being sold on ebay now in December of 2018, or has the design been modified to be more accurate to the OEM design in regards to the thickness where the tonearm clamp/blade slides into the headshell to lock the headshell on to the tone arm.

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by jdubbie » 19 Dec 2018 02:16

mirt54 wrote:
18 Dec 2018 21:35
Hey, just wondering if these faulty designed sleds, headshells, cartridge carriers, whatever you want to call them are still the design being sold on ebay now in December of 2018, or has the design been modified to be more accurate to the OEM design in regards to the thickness where the tonearm clamp/blade slides into the headshell to lock the headshell on to the tone arm.
Search for "TK-12 Cartridge Holder for Dual 1019" and look for the version which is "injection molded." This is a very good cartridge holder, or at least was when I last purchased one a couple years ago. The leads might be just slightly shorter than OEM.

jdubbie

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by mrow2 » 19 Dec 2018 05:23

Everyone should be communicating directly with Pat, who created it I believe. I knew it was tight, but I kind of figured they would "wear" into place. I don't have one but can see the issue and would not hesitate to remove a small amount of material (with an original one nearby) using a Dremel and the appropriate bit. But it takes practice with a Dremel to have the confidence to do it.

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by Dr_Wu » 30 Dec 2018 12:48

Very happy to have found this thread prior to damaging 1019. Returning the Pat's with a note about this issue, and buying a "Best" version, injection molded.

Thanks all!

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 03 Jan 2019 15:01

Dr_Wu wrote:
30 Dec 2018 12:48
Very happy to have found this thread prior to damaging 1019. Returning the Pat's with a note about this issue, and buying a "Best" version, injection molded.

Thanks all!
That's great, Dr. Wu!

Please post a picture of the injection molded part showing that area where the tonearm lever tongue engages the cartridge holder. I'd like to see for myself without having to purchase one.

Pete

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by Dr_Wu » 05 Jan 2019 03:29

pwreimers wrote:
03 Jan 2019 15:01
Dr_Wu wrote:
30 Dec 2018 12:48
Very happy to have found this thread prior to damaging 1019. Returning the Pat's with a note about this issue, and buying a "Best" version, injection molded.

Thanks all!
That's great, Dr. Wu!

Please post a picture of the injection molded part showing that area where the tonearm lever tongue engages the cartridge holder. I'd like to see for myself without having to purchase one.

Pete
Will post some pics tomorrow. For now, I can advise that the injection molded model I bought on ebay works fine. The locking mechanism appears to be the same thickness as the original TK-12. The fit to the headshell is slightly snugger, owing mostly to the stiffness of the contact wires which have to be bent to the sides where the back of the sled meets the shell.

Listening to the Steve Wilson re-master of Aqualung on the LPGear CF3600LE cart with the CFN3600LE cantilever/stylus upgrade. It sounds marvelous even with only an hour or two on it. Hard to believe the whole thing only added up to 60USD. Very happy!

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by Calypte » 05 May 2019 04:28

This is very interesting. I have one of Pat's sleds for the 1019, which I bought with a pre-mounted AT95E cartridge. The fit was very tight, and it didn't occur to me that I was stressing the pin that holds the lever. Now I'm worried that someday it may just pop off suddenly, due to the stress. I don't understand how both makers of TK-12 could have made this same mistake. There are also issues with the AR headshells these vendors sell. I'm grateful that they've provided alternatives to the hard-to-find original headshells for these turntables, but it seems to me that they would do everybody a favor by fixing these fit problems. They are so close to being right.