how to leveling a 1219?

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yak66
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how to leveling a 1219?

Post by yak66 » 15 Dec 2018 16:31

Hello, I changed the plinth of my dual 1219
but the chassis is not horizontal.
what can I do?
THANK YOU for answer
Dual1219_EX_grundig1.jpg
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Dual1219_EX_grundig2.jpg
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Spinner45
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by Spinner45 » 15 Dec 2018 17:05

Unless you're simply annoyed at the small error, it has no effect on operation or sound quality..
And it's normal.

yak66
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by yak66 » 15 Dec 2018 18:16

"has no effect on sound quality"

Yes, I read this....
Why can a DUAL be NOT-horizontal?

DualSpinsMyVinyl
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by DualSpinsMyVinyl » 15 Dec 2018 18:44

My 1219 is approaching 50 years old and it too has a slight lean to the left. It is probably due to the platter being mounted slightly to the left and this offset of the weight has caused the springs to settle slightly more on the left side. Due to the fact that the 1219 is dynamically balanced, leveling is not necessary. DUALCAN has photos of a 1219 mounted upside down in his jig for servicing turntables playing a record while upside down. So whether it is level or not is a mute point. You can place shims under the left side to adjust the plinth so that the table is level using a "bubble level" however eliminating the slight visual lean to the left of the turntable to the plinth will probably necessitate new springs on the left side that have not settled yet. Or you can try taking your present springs and slightly stretching them to counter this sag and see what happens. If it were mine I would leave it alone. When you start playing around with things, as Murphy's law states "equal and opposite things can happen that are not what you expected".

Spinner45
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by Spinner45 » 15 Dec 2018 19:47

DualSpinsMyVinyl wrote:
15 Dec 2018 18:44
My 1219 is approaching 50 years old and it too has a slight lean to the left. It is probably due to the platter being mounted slightly to the left and this offset of the weight has caused the springs to settle slightly more on the left side. Due to the fact that the 1219 is dynamically balanced, leveling is not necessary. DUALCAN has photos of a 1219 mounted upside down in his jig for servicing turntables playing a record while upside down. So whether it is level or not is a mute point. You can place shims under the left side to adjust the plinth so that the table is level using a "bubble level" however eliminating the slight visual lean to the left of the turntable to the plinth will probably necessitate new springs on the left side that have not settled yet. Or you can try taking your present springs and slightly stretching them to counter this sag and see what happens. If it were mine I would leave it alone. When you start playing around with things, as Murphy's law states "equal and opposite things can happen that are not what you expected".
I agree.

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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by mrow2 » 16 Dec 2018 00:27

The springs can be removed and relocated. Make sure original positions are not lost. It may be that a couple are in the wrong places (maybe swapped) if in fact they were originally assigned to certain corners. Seems like I read this in the distant past but I can't be sure. Aren't they color-coded? If this doesn't help, the minor stretching might do it but this is not likely reversible and can easily be overdone (custom-fitted shims are the better idea), so I would proceed with much caution if you are going to do that.

yak66
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by yak66 » 17 Dec 2018 09:04

Thanks for your answers.
Question: the springs are fixed to the chassis, how?
How to take them off?
Dual1219-TBM-molla.jpg
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DSJR
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by DSJR » 17 Dec 2018 09:31

Most Duals of this era have fully dynamically counterbalanced tonearms IN ALL PLANES, so being slightly off level isn't at all an issue to the playing or sound quality available.

Having said the above, some people are deeply irritated by this kind of visual thing and I'd probably gently 'stretch' the offending springs to bring the left side back up into level. Sacrilege? I'm not sure but needs must sometimes.

Best thing probably is to obtain some more springs (organdonorparts is a fine resource if necessary) and after marking the originals so they can be replaced if necessary, swapping some around...

Tinkaroo
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by Tinkaroo » 17 Dec 2018 10:03

Assuming the hole in the plinth that the spring cup sits in isn't worn through you may want to try swapping around some springs from your own chassis.

i.e swap some springs from the high side to the low side which has probably had the most weight on it over the years.

They should pop into the chassis with a plastic cup on the top end of the spring.

Or you could add a shim under the spring on the low side. It may be better to try the first suggestion first.

Tinkaroo
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by Tinkaroo » 17 Dec 2018 10:27

I had a look at my 1229Q and it sagged a bit on the front left corner too. The reason for that is the heavy platter is on that side, but also the heavy motor on that corner.

I removed and checked that corner spring against that on the tonearm pivot corner and there was no difference in height.

I followed DSJRs advice and stretched the front corner spring just a little and replaced the chassis and that made the difference since it was only a few mm anyways. =D>

This chassis is heavy however, so watch your fingers and make sure the cups of the springs get seated back in the plinth holes properly when you replace it. It's also important to get the plinth levelled too since if the weight gets shifted to that front left corner then it can make it sag more on that corner.

yak66
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by yak66 » 17 Dec 2018 13:16

it is not a very important question
I only like to understand

The CK20 plinth has a plastic base
weighs only 1.8 kg
is a good thing a heavier plinth?
without changing this
just a new wooden base (for example)
Dual1219-TBM-Plinto2.jpg
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Tinkaroo
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by Tinkaroo » 17 Dec 2018 13:19

According to Klaus a heavier plinth has no effect other than aesthetics.

yak66
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by yak66 » 18 Dec 2018 09:40

I took a spring from a 1216 (the highest)
(1216 and 1219 are the same)
I stretched it a bit, before
here is the situation now
a little better
(the problem is plate and motor on that spring are heavy)
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Dual1219_springs2.jpg
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Tinkaroo
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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by Tinkaroo » 18 Dec 2018 10:11

I managed to get mine fairly even, but yes the front left corner definitely take the brunt of the weight with the heavy platter and the motor right in that corner.

Lifting the chassis out gives you a better appreciation of what a tank this model is! :wink:

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Re: how to leveling a 1219?

Post by dualcan » 18 Dec 2018 15:29

Please be careful when removing the suspension springs.
If you look at the various service manuals you will find many times that springs differ from model to model and each may have different spring on each chassis corner/placement. Many springs have a colour dab to differentiate them, however a red (or any colour) dabbed spring for one model is not necessarily the same as a red dab on another unit...
These springs perform roughly the same function as a car's suspension coil spring. The car's rear springs value are different from the front. Since the springs on our turntables have to filter out resonances, acoustic feed back as well as foot-traffic, they need to be very carefully selected.
If a side sags a bit due to age, a tug to stretch them a bit is doable but any major force can upset the spring and skew the filtering it is supposed to do.
For the 601, upon its rather hasty introduction (SM840 motor comes to mind...) we also received a service bulletin to change three out of the four (!) springs under warranty because of a resonance issue. All three springs where different to each other as I recall (red/blue/yellow or white? dabbed) each with a different part number, of course.
These specially selected springs along with the dynamically balanced tone arms, are the reason all floating chassis do not need a heavy base to dampen externally caused vibrations. We must however keep the original selected spring in order to retain the isolation intact.
Regards,
k

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