Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

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vinyl master
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by vinyl master » 12 Nov 2018 08:31

By the way, junglungs...Where DO you live abouts? I might be able to find some candidates for you to look at...You never know what I might find and I've been pretty good at this...What have you got to lose? :-k

In regards to "new", about the only ones I could recommend to you are brands like U-Turn, Pro-Ject, Rega, etc. The Audio Technica AT-LP120 would be the only AT I'd consider (and I'm still a bit iffy on that one, although many others love theirs...)...The build quality and reliability of many new tables, though, just doesn't match up to what it was in the 70's, which is the sweet spot for vintage audio to me!

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Tinkaroo » 12 Nov 2018 09:32

Prices have gone up considerably on most vintage audio including turntables with the vinyl resurgence as some have coined it. There are still some good examples to be found and reasonable deals too if one is patient and shops around.

It's up to the consumer to do their research and educate themselves before buying. Even if that education came from making a mistake or two beforehand as many of us have done, but learned valuable lessons and info in the process. From there someone might want to eventually step up to one of the more highly rated turntables which would have been built to a higher standard, but will have the experience with other turntables they've owned by which to compare it.

If someone buys used and can't service it themselves which isn't anything to be ashamed of, then buy a good used example and have it serviced. Before I started servicing some of my own turntables I had a couple serviced by an expert, and it was money well spent since 8 years later both are still going strong. Also if something has been professionally serviced you should expect to pay more than for something that hasn't been since it should work better and last longer.

lini
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by lini » 12 Nov 2018 13:31

jl: Actually, I wouldn't necessarily deem an SL-DD22 refurbished by KAB for ca. 200 bucks "way overpriced", because I'd expect that vendor to be pretty thorough - but it would also depend a bit on which AT cartridge with which new stylus they equip their refurbished Technics slimline T4P radial trackers with. I.e., if your priorities aren't that much on low price and you're willing to pay a decent extra for service and high likelyhood of a successful plug & play experience, I'd deem such an offer merely "not exactly cheap", but not "way overpriced".

However, I'd suggest to think about whether you're actually best served with a T4P turntable.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Gravitar8 » 12 Nov 2018 14:10

Agreed....and add vintage Kenwood KD 5066 (a few online sales at around 250$ btw) to that list...likely would pair well with your speakers which I wouldn't replace with bookshelves right away- you say things are sounding nice right now?
royal_mile wrote:
05 Nov 2018 19:58
I would go for a vintage turntable, you'll get a really nice one at your budget. My shortlist would include models made between 1974 and 1980 including the Technics SL1500 Mk1, Hitachi HT-550, Dual 606, Pioneer PL-510, Sansui SR-525, Pioneer PL518 all nicely made and great value.

The Technics SLDD22 is ok but way overpriced at $200, I'd pass on that one.

Good luck with your search.

Steve

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Spinner45 » 12 Nov 2018 17:24

vinyl master wrote:
12 Nov 2018 08:25
Spinner45 wrote:
12 Nov 2018 07:28

I say...Ya want something cheap?
Go buy a Crosley crapola.
My Crosley was one of the most expensive ones I own, and I don't even use it! I still kick myself for paying full price for it...That said, a well-serviced vintage model can be worth it, if you don't want the headaches...Of course, I also love to haggle (and if you can do it, why not??? I've been fairly successful at it, but I've always come away in a situation where both seller and I are happy...)...The thrill of finding quality for cheap is a reward unto itself, too, when I realize they're not gonna make these kinds of turntables anymore...
Haggling has always been around.
But also, consider this...
When a seller puts a reasonable price on a unit, being serviced, had parts replaced, new cartridge installed, isn't it an insult to that seller, to attempt to haggle?

For instance:
a Dual 1241 for sale, no dust cover - $200.
Cosmetically perfect.
New belt.
New AT95 cartridge.
45 donut adapter.
New RCA cables.
Cleaned, lubed, adjusted, checked.

Or............
A Miracord/Realistic 46 - $200, no dustcover.
Cosmetically 97%
Tonearm head damaged, retrofitted with suitable replacement.
Pickering cartridge w/new stylus.
Has both multi/single spindles.
Cleaned, lubed/adjusted/tested.
New power/RCA cables.
Walnut base improvements - added bottom panel.

Both ready to plug and play, with the only thing needed in the future might be a new stylus.
Substantial labor time involved in them to make them "right" and reliable.

Would you "haggle" them down?

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Spinner45 » 12 Nov 2018 17:32

royal_mile wrote:
05 Nov 2018 19:58
I would go for a vintage turntable, you'll get a really nice one at your budget. My shortlist would include models made between 1974 and 1980 including the Technics SL1500 Mk1, Hitachi HT-550, Dual 606, Pioneer PL-510, Sansui SR-525, Pioneer PL518 all nicely made and great value.

The Technics SLDD22 is ok but way overpriced at $200, I'd pass on that one.

Good luck with your search.

Steve
Someone paid $180 for it, new in 1980, and surely didn't think they were being ripped off.
However, today, people are so damn cheap and could care less about inflation, servicing, labor time, etc.

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Tinkaroo » 12 Nov 2018 17:44

If someone doesn't want to haggle then they should indicate "price is firm" in their ad and perhaps briefly why it is. They can also add "Low ballers will be ignored".

If someone puts "or best offer" in an ad then they should be open to "reasonable" offers.

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by andybeau » 12 Nov 2018 17:58

Spinner45 wrote:
12 Nov 2018 17:24
vinyl master wrote:
12 Nov 2018 08:25
Spinner45 wrote:
12 Nov 2018 07:28

I say...Ya want something cheap?
Go buy a Crosley crapola.
My Crosley was one of the most expensive ones I own, and I don't even use it! I still kick myself for paying full price for it...That said, a well-serviced vintage model can be worth it, if you don't want the headaches...Of course, I also love to haggle (and if you can do it, why not??? I've been fairly successful at it, but I've always come away in a situation where both seller and I are happy...)...The thrill of finding quality for cheap is a reward unto itself, too, when I realize they're not gonna make these kinds of turntables anymore...
Haggling has always been around.
But also, consider this...
When a seller puts a reasonable price on a unit, being serviced, had parts replaced, new cartridge installed, isn't it an insult to that seller, to attempt to haggle?

For instance:
a Dual 1241 for sale, no dust cover - $200.
Cosmetically perfect.
New belt.
New AT95 cartridge.
45 donut adapter.
New RCA cables.
Cleaned, lubed, adjusted, checked.

Or............
A Miracord/Realistic 46 - $200, no dustcover.
Cosmetically 97%
Tonearm head damaged, retrofitted with suitable replacement.
Pickering cartridge w/new stylus.
Has both multi/single spindles.
Cleaned, lubed/adjusted/tested.
New power/RCA cables.
Walnut base improvements - added bottom panel.

Both ready to plug and play, with the only thing needed in the future might be a new stylus.
Substantial labor time involved in them to make them "right" and reliable.

Would you "haggle" them down?
Yes

Spinner45
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Spinner45 » 12 Nov 2018 18:00

Tinkaroo wrote:
12 Nov 2018 17:44
If someone doesn't want to haggle then they should indicate "price is firm" in their ad and perhaps briefly why it is. They can also add "Low ballers will be ignored".

If someone puts "or best offer" in an ad then they should be open to "reasonable" offers.
I totally agree Tink.
Yet, some ignore the statements, and still attempt to haggle.

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Sunwire » 12 Nov 2018 18:34

For what it's worth:
As far as I can recall NO ONE paid full retail price for a Technics turntable back in the 70s and 80s.
They were sold in big discount stores and by mail order.
I think it was not unusual to see them at 30-40% off of the retail price. Maybe even lower, but I can't swear to that.
I worked in three small-medium sized mid to high end stores around 1980. Our standard markup on electronics was about 40%. We rarely sold anything at full retail and I think a 20% discount was not unusual. Depending on how badly we wanted the sale and how hard the customer bargained, the price could go lower.
The big volume stores had lower wholesale prices relative to the "suggested retail price" and they sold VASTLY larger volumes of product. So, their discounts were ALWAYS larger than ours. We didn't even advertise discounts, they ALWAYS did.
Technics was not sold in small to medium sized shops. They were sold in the biggest volume stores and the mail order stores that discounted everything heavily.
So, a "$180" Technics turntable was probably sold retail for more like $108-$120. Maybe even less; I'm not sure.

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by b+v8an » 12 Nov 2018 19:54

Hey there junglungs
I believe the most important thing for you to consider is the appearance of the TT. If you don't like the way it looks ,you will not be happy.From your suggestions,you appear to be a straight tonearm kind of guy. Look for one that looks good to you! In your price range, you could buy just about any good vintage, serviced, TT there is. The performance will be pretty much the same.I prefer automatic tt's.Life is too short as it is. Just remember , straight tonearms might not work with heavier carts( >7 gms.) . Just pick one and get busy listening.

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Sunwire » 12 Nov 2018 21:57

Why would straight tonearms not work with heavier carts (>7 grams)?

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Van_Isle » 13 Nov 2018 01:01

The KAB Technics turntables used to come with a warranty. I'd check on that as I don't see it specifically mentioned on their site. I'd check with Kevin to see if this is still the case ... as that page, including available models (and the price), has been recently updated.

For those of us that do the turntable reno thing it's becoming more and more difficult to find parts are reasonable prices. Dust covers were mentioned ... they've gotten just stupid. A used dust cover for most tables will run $80 or so, not including shipping. Hinges? ... $40 +. Price out an original Technics (non-counterfeit) headshell recently? Feet? And of course any non-original parts are often looked upon with raised eyebrows. Labour for the renos? Forget it.

You need to hook up with someone, perhaps through the classifieds here or on usaudiomart or elsewhere, that approaches this as a hobby and a 'labour of love'. Otherwise the chance of getting burned is very high.

Unfortunately, it's becoming more and more common to get the email response to an ad, marked 'lowballers will be ignored' or 'firm', etc., along the lines of "I'll give you $XX" where $XX is 1/2 to 1/3rd of the listed price.

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Van_Isle » 13 Nov 2018 01:02

Also you can look at the entry-level Thorens offered by Vinyl Nirvana or Duals offered by Dr. Dual or Fix-my-Dual.

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Spinner45 » 13 Nov 2018 03:06

andybeau wrote:
12 Nov 2018 17:58
Spinner45 wrote:
12 Nov 2018 17:24


Haggling has always been around.
But also, consider this...
When a seller puts a reasonable price on a unit, being serviced, had parts replaced, new cartridge installed, isn't it an insult to that seller, to attempt to haggle?

For instance:
a Dual 1241 for sale, no dust cover - $200.
Cosmetically perfect.
New belt.
New AT95 cartridge.
45 donut adapter.
New RCA cables.
Cleaned, lubed, adjusted, checked.

Or............
A Miracord/Realistic 46 - $200, no dustcover.
Cosmetically 97%
Tonearm head damaged, retrofitted with suitable replacement.
Pickering cartridge w/new stylus.
Has both multi/single spindles.
Cleaned, lubed/adjusted/tested.
New power/RCA cables.
Walnut base improvements - added bottom panel.

Both ready to plug and play, with the only thing needed in the future might be a new stylus.
Substantial labor time involved in them to make them "right" and reliable.

Would you "haggle" them down?
Yes
Of course you would.

However, those turntables mentioned DID sell finally for the asking price, and both new owners were extremely pleased in the end.