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Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

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Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 10 Jan 2018 09:48

Hello,

I've recently acquired an SL-65B from the local mega thrift store. Craigslist and eBay have seen to it that no one will ever stumble across a mint condition $10 bargain at a local thrift store, so when I found this neglected, dirty machine for $30, I grabbed it.

Citrus cleaner and Brasso made light work of the built-up gunk on the platform and trim pieces. The stuck spindle was freed easily with a surprisingly light rap with a rubber mallet. I pulled the platter and was quite pleased to find that the idler rubber is very supple. This machine seemed to be neglected but not worn out or abused.

I can manually trip the pawl on the cam and everything cycles properly; it even sets the tonearm down in the right place. So far so good!

Underneath, the grease is sticky (and very, very orange…I can't decide if this is age, nicotine staining, or both) but not yet cement. Most of the mechanism moves fairly freely other than the trip rod for the tonearm.

Back story complete, we finally get to my questions!

I've removed the circlip but can't remove the main cam. (It cycles fine, albeit a bit slowly and obviously it needs to come off for a proper cleaning.) I've tried heating the centre pin with a soldering iron, tried dripping isopropyl into it and heating it again, and tried to gently lever it up with a flat head screwdriver, with no success. Should I try penetrating oil on the centre pin? Can I disassemble the mechanism from the bottom and gently knock it out with a punch from underneath?

There's a clearly audible scraping sound as the platter spins. I've greased the centre hole of the platter, the exterior of the spindle shaft, the thrust bearings, the ball race…it just won't go away. As far as I can tell there's no scoring on the spindle shaft or the platter. If I run it at 78 RPM and cut the power, the platter spins for a good minute and a half, so I don't think it's the bearings…but it makes this horrible "slk-slk-slk-slk-slk-slk" noise with each rotation.

Thanks everyone!
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 10 Jan 2018 10:05

Just an addendum about the scraping sound:

I'm not sure if there's something wrong with the Garrard, or if I'm just expecting too much. I have a Dual 521, a Yamaha YP-211, and an Hitachi PS-10, all of which spin silently if I take the belt off and fling the platter around.

Do I need to fix the Garrard, or is this just the expected tolerances?
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby DSJR » 10 Jan 2018 19:03

These platters should be pretty silent in rotation unless spun very fast in which case you'll hear a muted 'whir' or 'ccccchhhhhh' noise from the ball race spinning round.

Is the O (cushion ring) ring under the platter bearing race there and intact? Failure here will make the platter run too low and possibly catch something. Check motor pulley height and corresponding idler bracket height adjustment (all in the service manuals for these Autoslim derivatives).

Check also the C clip holding the platter on is the right way round and not binding - silly thought but I'll chuck it in for good measure...
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby A70BBen » 10 Jan 2018 20:50

You can NOT remove the main cam wheel from below by driving it out. Persisting with the heat is the best way though a good penetrant... NOT isopropyl alcohol...will Help if the cam wheel is rotating on its shaft because some of the penetrant could work its way in. If the shaft is rotating in the chassis, STOP before it loosens any more.
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 11 Jan 2018 01:58

DSJR wrote:Is the O (cushion ring) ring under the platter bearing race there and intact? Failure here will make the platter run too low and possibly catch something. Check motor pulley height and corresponding idler bracket height adjustment (all in the service manuals for these Autoslim derivatives).


I forgot to mention that in my original post. The remains of the o ring (very sticky and disintegrated were actually on top of the upper bearing race-- I assume someone's had this apart before and reassembled it incorrectly. Is there anything special about it, or can I just use a regular o ring as a replacement?
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 11 Jan 2018 02:07

A70BBen wrote:If the shaft is rotating in the chassis, STOP before it loosens any more.


I assumed it was spinning on the shaft, but now I'm worried that's not the case. I was a bit perplexed when I pulled on the cam and it didn't budge, but the whole cam assembly seemed to have loosened. I'll check this out tonight. If the shaft is loose, is there a way to repair it?
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 11 Jan 2018 03:09

amagasakii wrote:
A70BBen wrote:If the shaft is rotating in the chassis, STOP before it loosens any more.

I assumed it was spinning on the shaft, but now I'm worried that's not the case. I was a bit perplexed when I pulled on the cam and it didn't budge, but the whole cam assembly seemed to have loosened. I'll check this out tonight. If the shaft is loose, is there a way to repair it?

Ugh. Yes, the cam is seized the shaft, and the shaft is spinning. Once the cam leaves its "parked" position, it has about 1/8" of wobble…maybe a little less. I've left penetrating oil to soak, hopefully that will Help.
Hopefully I'll just be able to tighten the rivet.
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby DSJR » 11 Jan 2018 13:57

As for the cushion O ring, check the diameter of the main bearing shaft for overall size (the ring is a fairly snug fit) and use what I think is a 1.6mm diameter ring. Any thicker and the platter will run too high - there must be a small 1mm - 2mm or so free vertical play if the platter is lifted against its fixing clip - I haven't measured it but it's around this much I think.

I *think* there may have been another larger diameter but still 1.6mm cross section O ring around the bottom of the platter hub directly under the gear teeth which is the sludge you found - there is in the directly related SP25 III - and this serves to quieten the mechanism down when cycling (there's a pic of one in my 'gallery')..
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby A70BBen » 11 Jan 2018 20:24

If the shaft is loose in the chassis, a prior "servicer" did it by forcing it. Go to the Garrard 2025TC thread. He has the same problem (the 2025TC chassis is the same in that area) and it is discussed there.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=101291

You will still need to separate the cam gear from the shaft, first. You could see if puddling some solder on top of the shaft to increase heat transfer from your soldering iron will Help, or use a mini-torch. The SL65B does not have plastic parts in the cam that could be damaged by heat, unlike the SL95, etc.
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 11 Jan 2018 23:15

DSJR wrote:As for the cushion O ring, check the diameter of the main bearing shaft for overall size (the ring is a fairly snug fit) and use what I think is a 1.6mm diameter ring. Any thicker and the platter will run too high - there must be a small 1mm - 2mm or so free vertical play if the platter is lifted against its fixing clip - I haven't measured it but it's around this much I think.

I *think* there may have been another larger diameter but still 1.6mm cross section O ring around the bottom of the platter hub directly under the gear teeth which is the sludge you found - there is in the directly related SP25 III - and this serves to quieten the mechanism down when cycling (there's a pic of one in my 'gallery')..


Should there be two o rings then? O ring, washer, race, washer, o ring? There's no bottom o ring (nor even remnants thereof) currently. (I can't seem to find the picture in your gallery.)
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 11 Jan 2018 23:33

A70BBen wrote:If the shaft is loose in the chassis, a prior "servicer" did it by forcing it.


It certainly seems that the prior "servicer" loosened it, and I've successfully made it worse. This is what I get for trying to rush things! #-o

A70BBen wrote:You will still need to separate the cam gear from the shaft, first. You could see if puddling some solder on top of the shaft to increase heat transfer from your soldering iron will Help, or use a mini-torch. The SL65B does not have plastic parts in the cam that could be damaged by heat, unlike the SL95, etc.


The small amount of penetrating oil I could drip onto the shaft is, of course, right where I left it! More time with the soldering iron is in order. If that doesn't work, could I use a heat gun on the low setting, or is that not precise enough?
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby A70BBen » 12 Jan 2018 06:50

It should be OK. A mini-torch, which has a small, pointed flame, would be better, I think.

A larger soldering iron, or a soldering gun, with a puddle of solder melted onto the shaft, has generally done the trick for me. A pencil iron may not heat it sufficiently. I I did use a mini-torch on the frozen shaft on a Garrard Type A70...a few seconds and the shaft simply dropped out (I had already removed the hex nut that held it onto the chassis)

Whatever you use, be careful and when you try to lift the cam gear out, do it with a rag so you don't burn your fingers!

Image

This problem is not unique to Garrards, or even to turntables. The pivoting pinch roller bracket on the well-regarded Teac reel-to-reel tape recorders would virtually invariably seize on dried grease.
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 12 Jan 2018 09:30

Fifteen minutes with the soldering iron tonight yielded no improvement. When people said the grease turns to cement I thought that was a bit of hyperbole! I'm going to borrow a soldering gun and, if that doesn't work, it's on to the torch.

Since I needed to make some progress, I did disassemble a bit of the mechanism underneath. Most of the grease is sticky but not solidified, so that's good. I managed to get a peek at the swaged portion of the cam stud and it looks to be in very good condition, so maybe I'll have success with hammering it tight again. Checked the tonearm wiring with a multimeter and lubricated the idler shaft which has quieted it down slightly. I'm already quite fond of this little machine!
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby DSJR » 12 Jan 2018 15:32

They (the SL65B is a changer version of the SP25 III but with 'better' motor) were pretty good and in the UK, ruled until the Pioneer PL12-D came along and blew away all before it at this price level.

The 'top O ring' fits around the rotating platter hub directly under the geared part (I have a similar one pictured in my 'gallery' on a Zero 100 platter to show where it goes).

If it's to be used for single records, see if you can fabricate a wedge as Garrard supplied, which fits between cartridge and the C2 carrier. It'll tilt the cartridge so that its top is level for single records (the AP76 also uses one but set the other way as the platter is slightly too 'tall' on this SL72B based model).
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Postby amagasakii » 13 Jan 2018 05:54

A70BBen wrote:It should be OK. A mini-torch, which has a small, pointed flame, would be better, I think.

[...]

Whatever you use, be careful and when you try to lift the cam gear out, do it with a rag so you don't burn your fingers!

I decided to skip the soldering gun and go straight to the mini torch, and I'm glad I did. I started with ten seconds of heat; the cam finally came off after a full minute of flame. It was a similar story with the pivot plate. :shock:

I did use a rag, thank you! That cam stayed warm for quite a while.
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