Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

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Brewman2
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Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by Brewman2 » 13 Nov 2019 20:29

New to the site! Have "old school system". (dual 1246, pioneer sx-980, HPM-100's) all near Mint!
found this site, looking to fix my spec. pioneer cassette (ct-f100) at audio karma. Sooo much Information! on here!
and advise! Great people too! Cant wait to post some pic's of my Stuff...

Had my TT on a video stand.. cranked er up. and notice bass transfer to TT. thinking of mounting a shelf on the wall. Thought of suspending from the ceiling. (like we used to hang our speakers with plant hangers) but, W/4 point hooks.
or... what do you pro's use to isolate your TT. I've heard of marble, HD ply/cutting board, slate, cork, foam...

Love to hear some ideas on this! =D>

Brewman 2

JaS
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by JaS » 13 Nov 2019 21:07

Welcome to the site.

Wall mounting your deck, off the floor and out of the line of fire of the speakers works well.

Having said that, I have mine on a floor stand at the moment, on a timber suspended floor. It wasn't ideal, but a few extra noggins between the joists stiffened up the floor no end.

Even just adding a heavy slab under the deck may do the job? I'd see what you have lying around and experiment with the location too.

Regards,
JaS

SpruceMoose
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by SpruceMoose » 14 Nov 2019 14:53

Sand box or half racquet balls under a wood or marble plank.

davidsss
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by davidsss » 15 Nov 2019 13:13

Yep, I have wooden floors and an old house. Have thought about a wall shelf but the sandbox works very well.

This one is good: https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/sandblaster_e.html

DS

Rog Beltmann
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by Rog Beltmann » 15 Nov 2019 14:09

Suspending the tt from the ceiling works very well. When I was in the Navy I suspended my tt from the overhead. When we were underway I was the only one able to listen to records. On some of my recordings I can hear the prop slapping the water but no skips or feedback. I was using a Dual 1009sk at the time.

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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by goatbreath » 15 Nov 2019 22:09

Before anyone condemns this idea,actually try this,the reason I do it is because it works..
Any theories I came up with is why I think it may be working..
I just know I always end up with a variation on this arrangement..

I have found and still needle on records,then advancing the volume control confirms it,as does the better tracking and all that goes along with that... A Heavy Slab of dense piece of mass like concrete or marble can stop vibrations in the room getting into the turntable..
This is of course a good thing..

BUT as far as the Turntable sitting on something with higher mass than it..
This creates a closed loop as the vibrations have nowhere to go as they hit a denser material,
so they just go back into the turtable,which gets back to the needle....
Again try the still needle on the record test,and sowly advance the volume control..
Or listen to how much less confused the sound on the record is..
That sounds subjective,but acoustic feedback is an objective thing..
In other words the heavy slab etc acts as a barrier yet again..Why wouldn't it..??

Solution..A not too heavy piece of wood on sorbothane feet on top of the Mass Barrier..
Even rubber feet still work..
Even on my Wallshelf,the actual shelf is glass..
It sounds better using a secondary piece of lightish rigid wood on rubber or sorbothane feet....
The feet decouple the lighter board from the denser material..
The vibration travels out of the turntable into the lighter board..
Why too light a board shouldn't be used.
Although the Ikea Lack Idea,that is really light..
I have found something a big more substantial works a bit better..

I know it isn't the usual conventional view that sells overpriced isolation products..
Again,try it before you condemn it.. :) :) :)


Pine or Spruce is good,something fast growing,Contiboard seems to work not bad too..
It seems to be lossy,,I haven't figured out why as it doesn't have straight grain for the vibration to travel along..
Why I think Pine,Spruce etc..May be best of all..
MDF is a bit too dense,a thick bit of MDF is more of a barrier. than able to drain vibrations...

Think about an acoustic guitar,the soundboard is usually made from spruce or Cedar,
a fast growing therefore broader grained wood..this means vibration travels in it easily..
The back and sides in a quality acoustic are usually a slower growing denser wood..Rosewood or Mahogany etc..
These denser woods mean that the vibration has nowhere to go,meaning the vibrations will travel back along the soundboard again, guitar will hopefully project better,plus actually be louder.
If you just used the Spruce top itself,the vibration would travel straight out of it,
so by sitting a Turntable on a rigid enough surface the vibration travels into the board and is drained off..
you obviously need a thicker board than a flexible guitar top..

AudioFeline
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by AudioFeline » 16 Nov 2019 07:56

In terms of stone, slate is better than marble, and marble (in general) looks better than slate.

Bob Dillon
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by Bob Dillon » 16 Nov 2019 20:35

Turntable on a sand filled box will work best for stopping bass vibrations I think.

Brewman2
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by Brewman2 » 16 Nov 2019 20:38

Travertine slab, may help? Finish setup today.
Thanks for the help. How am I going to level this cart with wheels?
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Brewman2
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by Brewman2 » 16 Nov 2019 23:54

Dual 1246
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Ripvanvinyl
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by Ripvanvinyl » 17 Nov 2019 00:52

For my 100 year old house with creaky wood floors? Nothing like a solid maple suspended cabinet fully braced against the fireplace and supporting walls.
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AsOriginallyRecorded
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 17 Nov 2019 01:53

Well personally, I'd be replacing the cabinet, since I'm sure it doesn't have enough mass to function as a "sink" for either air borne vibration energy or that coming through the floor. Now, that being said, air filled tires on the cart would help isolate from the floor vibes significantly, and enough mass added under the TT (butcher block, marble, concrete...with a sponge pad on that, between slab and TT) and another heavy slab in the bottom of the cart might prove effective. For my playstation for TTs, I have an old 350lb teacher's desk that I installed an isolated sheet of 3/4 inch sheet of furniture grade plywood/veneer ontop. Each of my TTs here sit on an appropriate size pad made from a quality yoga mat. Works great for me, and experience no vibration problems at all. I have 3 linear tracking TTs as well, which generally are vibration immune in use. Mass to absorb vibration, cushion isolation to ...well, isolate from extraneous vibration. It is a creative process, but not all that difficult. Definitely a case of YMMV...no case exactly the same. Good luck with it! 8)

AudioFeline
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by AudioFeline » 17 Nov 2019 02:35

Brewman2 wrote:
16 Nov 2019 20:38
Travertine slab, may help?...
This will add mass and stability, which may help. However, volcanic stone does not dissipate energy as efficiently as sedimentary stone (eg slate).

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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by davidsss » 17 Nov 2019 09:44

When I was thinking about this I figured that we need to think about conservation of energy. There is energy in vibrations which is where the problem is. This is why I went for a sandbox. The energy is turned into heat by moving the small grains of sand. So, the energy has to go somewhere, with a turntable stand or rack you need some way to turn the energy from vibrations into something else. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, you need to do something with it.

Of course, the point of a wall rack is to stop the energy getting to the turntable in the first case, which works. Otherwise, you need a way to turn the energy into something other than vibration.

DS

Mr Pig
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Re: Best surface, Marble, slate, cutting board???

Post by Mr Pig » 17 Nov 2019 19:01

It's a very contentious subject because, like everything, it's subjective. What I can tell you is that what your deck sits on does make a very big difference to the sound. So much so that I'd rather have a lesser turntable on a great support than a top turntable on the sideboard.

Just as there are different philosophies in turntable design, so it is with the support they sit on. Unfortunately, without trying different things it's impossible to know what works best for you but if you want your system to work at its best you do need to invest effort.

The cheapest way I've found to get a turntable sounding good is a light wall shelf. Even homemade ones work ok and shelves bypass any issues with a wooden floor. High-mass supports tend to sound clean but rop the music of life and dynamics. I say tend to as my Mana must weight a ton but is the best support I've ever heard! Stuff defies the rules.

Worst thing you can sit a turntable on is a wooden box, which is exactly what a lot of people use. The box will catch sound and resonate like a drum, passing that noise into the turntable sitting on it. A slab of something heavy on top is polishing a turd and can't fix it.

Try things yourself. See what you can find to set the deck on and see what it sounds like. Generally speaking, light and rigid is the way to go.

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