Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

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SiavashTechDaD
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Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by SiavashTechDaD » 07 Jun 2017 09:33

Hey Guys
I'm new to this forum and i apologize to admins if this post is not in the correct place .
I recently purchased a Denon DP300F with stock cartridge and connected it to my Onkyo AV receiver . I have turned on the phono pre-amp on the turn table but still the volume is very low and i get distortion when the vocals are on high notes . ( Andrea Bocelli - Somos Novios ).
i was wondering if you guys have experienced anything like it and if you suggest any solutions .
PS: i have set the counter weight and anti skipping at 2 grams .

DL110luvr
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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by DL110luvr » 07 Jun 2017 10:00

What INPUT on the Onkyo do you have the TT connected?
If you have the TT's built-in pre-amp ON...you SHOULD be able to plug into the LINE or AUX jacks....Assuming the Onkyo has PHONO input, TURN THE TT PRE-AMP OFF, then plug into PHONO....see if that helps!! Good luck!

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by SiavashTechDaD » 07 Jun 2017 10:27

DL110luvr wrote:What INPUT on the Onkyo do you have the TT connected?
If you have the TT's built-in pre-amp ON...you SHOULD be able to plug into the LINE or AUX jacks....Assuming the Onkyo has PHONO input, TURN THE TT PRE-AMP OFF, then plug into PHONO....see if that helps!! Good luck!
unfortunately my AV receiver does not have a PHONO input , that's why i'm using the phono pre-amp of the Denon Dp300F . I've connected the turntable to a AUX input .
i tested the same input with my CD player and it sounded fine .

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by SiavashTechDaD » 07 Jun 2017 11:11

I have just purchased a 2M Red cartridge , it will be delivered in next 3 days .
Do you think this low volume can be from the stock cartridge or it's the built in pre-amp ?

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by raphaelmabo » 07 Jun 2017 13:04

Different cartridges has different outputs. The Ortofon 2M Red has an output of 5.5 mV and the cartridge that comes with the 'table has 2.5 mV, so the 2M Red gives a stronger signal out. But 2.5 mV is not bad, I have 2.5 mV out from my cartridge and it's neither very low or distorted. I'm thinking maybe the built in phono pre-amp RIAA equalizer in your 'table doesn't work properly so it's not on even when set to on.

Having said that, sound from cartridges are lower than from other sources as CD etc. CD usually has approx 1.5x - 2x the volume of a cartridge and this is not a fault.

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by SiavashTechDaD » 07 Jun 2017 13:57

raphaelmabo wrote:Different cartridges has different outputs. The Ortofon 2M Red has an output of 5.5 mV and the cartridge that comes with the 'table has 2.5 mV, so the 2M Red gives a stronger signal out. But 2.5 mV is not bad, I have 2.5 mV out from my cartridge and it's neither very low or distorted. I'm thinking maybe the built in phono pre-amp RIAA equalizer in your 'table doesn't work properly so it's not on even when set to on.

Having said that, sound from cartridges are lower than from other sources as CD etc. CD usually has approx 1.5x - 2x the volume of a cartridge and this is not a fault.
do you think if i use TAPE input on my AV Receiver , i may get better results ?
if i measure the voltage after the pre-amp of the Denon , what should it be ?

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by raphaelmabo » 07 Jun 2017 14:13

I don't see that different line inputs would yield different results, line inputs should be the same.
The output voltage is in the manual :) page 7 english version - I quote:
"With equalizer OFF : 2.5 mV
With equalizer ON : 150 mV"

This is with the standard pre-installed cartridge. Those figures should be higher with the 2M Red since it has more output to begin with.

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by SiavashTechDaD » 07 Jun 2017 15:51

raphaelmabo wrote:I don't see that different line inputs would yield different results, line inputs should be the same.
The output voltage is in the manual :) page 7 english version - I quote:
"With equalizer OFF : 2.5 mV
With equalizer ON : 150 mV"

This is with the standard pre-installed cartridge. Those figures should be higher with the 2M Red since it has more output to begin with.
first i have to point out i really appreciate your Help .
i tested the TT connected to the TAPE input and the audio level was a little better . I checked and the pre-amp inside the TT is working for sure , because if i turn it down , the audio is gone .

So the pre-amp is functioning , i wish in next few days when i get the 2M red and install it i would get better sound .

do you believe that adding weight more than the 2 grams recommended is going to increase the audio quality and fidelity ?

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by Freddymac1 » 08 Jun 2017 01:41

If the stylus on the original cart is very dirty it will give you low output, but be very careful when you clean it. More tracking force will not give you more output. Do not use more VTF than maximum recommended.

DL110luvr
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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by DL110luvr » 08 Jun 2017 09:19

SiavashTechDaD wrote:I have just purchased a 2M Red cartridge , it will be delivered in next 3 days .
Do you think this low volume can be from the stock cartridge or it's the built in pre-amp ?
Before doing any more swapping of inputs, etc. -- I'd just wait and install the new cart....THEN check your level....it COULD be the original cart itself is bad, or (as stated earlier.....) the stylus is in need of a cleaning....
Good luck....and keep us posted!

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by raphaelmabo » 08 Jun 2017 10:23

If you get more volume on one line level input than another check the configuration of your AV receiver. It might be so that it's possible on your AV receiver to have different volume and input levels on different inputs. I'm not familiar with AV receivers. I use traditional 2 channel stereo with no fancy options. :)

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by SiavashTechDaD » 08 Jun 2017 13:22

DL110luvr wrote:
SiavashTechDaD wrote:I have just purchased a 2M Red cartridge , it will be delivered in next 3 days .
Do you think this low volume can be from the stock cartridge or it's the built in pre-amp ?
Before doing any more swapping of inputs, etc. -- I'd just wait and install the new cart....THEN check your level....it COULD be the original cart itself is bad, or (as stated earlier.....) the stylus is in need of a cleaning....
Good luck....and keep us posted!
Thanks a lot . i will do as you said .

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by SiavashTechDaD » 08 Jun 2017 13:25

raphaelmabo wrote:If you get more volume on one line level input than another check the configuration of your AV receiver. It might be so that it's possible on your AV receiver to have different volume and input levels on different inputs. I'm not familiar with AV receivers. I use traditional 2 channel stereo with no fancy options. :)
Thanks man . The TAPE input was a little bit better that AUX or CD in . I will clean in needle and wait until i receive the 2M RED and i will check again .

i hope one day i will be able to buy a traditional stereo amp with Phono input and hope fully a good DAC .

I appreciate all the feedback . i will keep you all posted .

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by SiavashTechDaD » 10 Jun 2017 12:32

Hey Guys

I received my Ortofon 2M Red today and I remembered the one i had ordered was with included head shell . :D
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AjyFtyyjtVMzntV0D-47Ogu0UmoWHghttps://1drv.ms/i/s!AjyFtyyjtVMzntV1bwlPnDwe3g9bKQ

So , since the head shell on my DP300F TT has an angle to it , i just can't replace the head shells , it seems i need to uninstall the 2M red from it's head shell and connect it to the Denon . The issue is that i'm not sure which type of cartridge alignment tool to use with this specific cartridge and head shell and i was hopping you guys could Help me with that .

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Re: Low output/volume on Denon DP300F

Post by Freddymac1 » 10 Jun 2017 14:25

I think the Denon has a measurement from the needle to the flange on the head shell plug.
The manual has this distance, on my DP 52F it is 38mm. They are all different by a few mm.
This is one of the critical measurements, and don't break the stylus in the process.

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