Denon DP-60L bad motor

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spyder986
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Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by spyder986 » 16 Aug 2016 22:07

Hello,
I have a Denon DP-60L with a dead motor. It has worked great then on day nothing. All the other functions work properly. By that I mean the lights on the buttons lite up etc. The motor appears to have died. I've tested for voltage into the motor and it has tested good. My question is can I get my motor repaired or replaced? Is that motor used on other models? Could I possibly just replace the entire unit with a DP-3000? I can't believe this TT is not salvageable. Any info will be appreciated. Thanks

EdAInWestOC
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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by EdAInWestOC » 17 Aug 2016 15:07

It is dubious that the motor itself just died. Have you ever had the DP-60L recapped?

Considering the age of the turntable, it is much more likely that the old, out of spec electrolytic capacitors have decided to stop your table from operating.

Before anyone says something like "look for electrolytic capacitors with a bulge", let me say something. Electrolytic capacitors start gong out of spec when they are about 15 years old. In a turntable that is a sophisticated as a Denon, you have a lot of electrolytic caps and the servo controlled circuitry depends on those caps to operate properly.

All of that sounds fairly obvious but bad caps are not those that just bulge. Bad caps are those caps that are so out of spec that the circuitry will no longer function as designed. Your table is over 30 years old now and the caps are all out of spec. Its a testimony to the table's design, that it operated for this long.

It just won't tolerate the state of the old, out of spec electrolytic capacitors any longer. If you have already recapped your table then ignore all of the above. If you have not, you will have to have your table recapped (and that means all of the electrolytic caps) or it will not operate any longer.

While I am on my soapbox you also need to have your table's main bearing looked at. I'm willing to bet that by now your main bearing thrust pad has a nice dimple worn into its surface. If that is the case the table will not operate like is is supposed to any longer.

I believe that the thrust pad for that table is integrated into the motor at the bottom of its spindle. Its a traditional design with a ball between the thrust pad and the spindle. If any uneven wear is in the ball, the end of the spindle (it is cupped and where the ball rests) or any uneven wear in the thrust pad, you will start having noise.

Denon designed the motor and bearing to have an infinite lifespan. They called it a bearing that lasts a lifetime. Unfortunately a "lifetime" is a vague term. I believe they considered it a lifetime bearing that lasts the lifetime of the turntable.

Now that your turntable has stopped working, they kept their word. Unfortunately Denon didn't guarantee that the main bearing would perform perfectly throughout the entire lifetime. It can't. Any sealed bearing will eventually wear out. And the Denon main bearing is no exception.

The good news is that the Denon main bearing is not under much of a load. Wear is not a chief concern with its design, so they could safely state its a lifetime bearing. That lifetime is likely gone and the least thing you will have to do is re-lube the bearing.

If you've already looked at the motor, you can easily remove the motor and disassemble it. The top of the motor will have some screws holding it together (I have a DP-62L which is very similar to your table). You can remove those screws and pull on the spindle to remove it from the motor.

Take care to not lose the ball from the bearing. It will be freely riding between the end of the spindle and the bottom of the motor. If you do this you can inspect the bearing. Look at the ball, the end of the spindle and inside the bottom of the motor.

You will need to shine a flashlight down the motor to see the bottom of the bearing. At the bottom is the thrust plate. Look to see if there is any wear. The surface of the thrust plate should be perfectly flat and have no wear (not indentations worn in its surface).

If there is wear you will need to have your bearing re-machined. It is not as simple as replacing the ball. The end of the spindle will likely need machining and the thrust plate may also need to be replaced. The sides of the spindle and inside the bearing may also need machining.

If you are really lucky, you won't need to replace any of the above. That isn't very likely but its possible. If you don't have to redo the above stuff, clean out the bearing and relube the bearing. I prefer a good light weight synthetic oil but you can Google around and get many recommendations.

Good Luck,
Ed

spyder986
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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by spyder986 » 17 Aug 2016 18:25

Thank you Ed for that informative reply. As previously stated I have voltage to the motor. Everything operates except the motor. When I change speeds I get voltage to the other pin, both speed buttons switch terminals with correct voltage. To me that would appear to be a bad motor. Where I live there aren't any techs to take my TT to. Do you know if there is another model I could swap a motor with? Maybe somewhere to send the motor for repair? Thanks again for your reply.

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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by captmark » 18 Aug 2016 08:46

Spyder- For S&G clean the contacts on both the motor, pins and switches-I had a 72L once that had that issue, but I realize I was living right that day-it is way way way more often than not the motor. You are most likely checking voltages and such with the TT upside down or on it's side-if you're living right you could have a bad solder joint or wire wrap...but again it's 1 in 1000+.

Your motor is pretty much shared with 57, 60, 62 and 67 models, US and Japan. It's possible some of those odd-duck Japan models like a 55L or some of the earlier tables might share as well, but I have no direct experience with swapping those. If I remember right the DP-790 and 1100/1200's have a similar motor and plug as well. The 59 and 72 motors can work electrically-same plug voltages and mounting points- but physically they are deeper/heavier and would probably need to have some adaptation of the bottom cover on the smaller plinth of a 60L...like a hole cut out.

I've been looking for over a year for a 59L motor- If you come across one I would trade you for a mint 60L motor and some $ to get it. I'm selling off all my hobby tables so when I get done I'll sell off the donor tables and spare parts left, but obviously I'm not getting rid of parts till I know I don't need them to finish the ones in queue. Hope this helps- M

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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by EdAInWestOC » 18 Aug 2016 15:29

spyder986 wrote:Thank you Ed for that informative reply. As previously stated I have voltage to the motor. Everything operates except the motor. When I change speeds I get voltage to the other pin, both speed buttons switch terminals with correct voltage. To me that would appear to be a bad motor. Where I live there aren't any techs to take my TT to. Do you know if there is another model I could swap a motor with? Maybe somewhere to send the motor for repair? Thanks again for your reply.
Perhaps your motor may be bad. The reason that I stated I doubt it, is that there isn't much to go wrong with that motor. Considering everything else in that turntable that operates that motor, the odds are it is an electronics problem.

Just having voltage at the motor might be an indication of something or you are chasing something that won't help you. I looked up the Denon replacement part numbers and the DP-60L motor is part number 2178018210, I would have thought that the DP-62L would use the same motor but the part number is different. The DP-62L's drive motor is PN 2178078001.

If I were you I would take the service manual for the DP-60L (in the Library) and follow the test points around on the servo motor controller PCB. You can check various test points for the voltage levels indicated in the schematic. The schematic also shows some waveforms to be tested for on the same PCB.

If you have an oscilloscope you can check for those waveforms on the PCB. Until you know for sure all of those test points have the correct voltage levels and the correct waveforms, you cannot rule out the electronics.

Even if this issue turns out to be the motor (anything can fail) I can safely say that you are not going to be enjoying that table very long unless you take care of the electronics.

Good luck,
Ed

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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by captmark » 12 Sep 2016 09:18

The issue is the 60L manual in the library is no where near correct on one of my 60L (of course the one with a dead motor problem) so tracing problems has been a real joy. We finally found success last evening by of all things replacing the stop switch. We had already done a recap and that didn't help-just odd that part would fail when it did..,but it did and we are spinnin and grinning again! :-)

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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by spyder986 » 08 Dec 2016 18:03

Thanks for the reply's I wanted to tell you Ed I did some research and have found the unit has not been recapped as I previously thought it was. I need to find a list of "ALL" the caps I need. So I decided to bring it out and take it apart preparing to recap it. I turned it on and it worked just fine. I turned it on and off several times. I enjoyed it for hours I even left it spinning all night long. Roughly 23 hours as I was watching it stopped and won't start again. I don't have anyone local to work on it and I'm not sure I want the task of recapping. I'd still like to purchase the caps if anyone can supply a list I'd appreciate it. Thanks Ed for being dead on with the motor and recapping. :-)

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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by Dimal » 09 Dec 2016 05:30

G'day mate... :)

If you head to the Service Manual here, go to Page 5 and you will see a list of all components grouped by type, for both the Motor Servo board and the Tonearm board. Main thing is to buy top quality Japanese made capacitors if you can. They are much more reliable and will last longer... 8)

Mal.

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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by norelco » 03 Jan 2017 13:39

Hi,

Try to replace the TR10 & TR 13 - 2SC2023, same case happened to my DP 60L, it suddenly stopped from spinning. TR10 & TR 13 are the one responsible for rotating & braking (stopping) the plater. Try to swap those two transistor to find out which one are defective.

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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by monkeeboy50 » 14 Oct 2017 14:27

Sorry to hijack (sorta), buit I have a DP 3000 with a similar issue, only it won't shut off consistantly. I have cleaned all the contact points on the switches and checked for loose/cold solders and didn't find anything obvious. As the "off" switch doesn't stay in the off position, but rather interrupts the circuit, should I be looking at a potentially bad relay or possibly the aforementioned tranistor?

Thanks!

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Re: Denon DP-60L bad motor

Post by barugs » 13 Jul 2019 03:23

I have a DP-60L that has damage from transport. I don’t know if the motor works, but the face ha some scratches. Do I have to replace the whole drive motor or are there parts I can buy to replace? The wooden base is in good condition, the dust cover is cracked and the arm base came loose.

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