Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

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JAHsenec
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Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by JAHsenec » 30 Jan 2020 19:15

Hey guys,

I am fairly new to this game, so please bear with me :wink:

After reading some reviews I decided to upgrade my Denon DP-300F turntable with a new cartridge. I finally chose Denon DL-110 based on some reviews that valued this combination.

I am using the turntable with stereo integrated amplifier NAD 310. When I was on Denon factory cartridge, I had the pre-amp built in the TT turned on, worked fine. Changing the cartridge to the new one, I am hearing a loud periodical beats that deems the recording inaudible. When I turn the built-in pre-amp off, it disappears and I can hear the music, but very quiet. Turning the volume to the max helps a bit, but the music is still barely audible.

Any thoughts on what should be the correct set-up for these devices?

Turntable: Denon DP-300F
Cartridge: Denon DL-110
Speakres: Mission 701

I would like to avoid buying a stand alone pre-amplifier just because of the above, so If there is any other option, I will take it.

Thanks.

Legrace
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Re: Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by Legrace » 30 Jan 2020 20:09

Problem could be relationship with phono pre is like mother in law, not the best. Output of 110 cartridge is only 1.6 mv, typical MM type are 4+. Not the answer you are seeking, but probably to have good result with this cartridge require separate phono pre. And one that is having MC input as well.

raphaelmabo
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Re: Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by raphaelmabo » 30 Jan 2020 20:21

Legrace wrote:
30 Jan 2020 20:09
Problem could be relationship with phono pre is like mother in law, not the best. Output of 110 cartridge is only 1.6 mv, typical MM type are 4+. Not the answer you are seeking, but probably to have good result with this cartridge require separate phono pre. And one that is having MC input as well.
The DL-110 is designed for MM phono stages with 47K ohm loading. I've had one, it worked without problems in my MM phono stages, even with a cheap NAD PP1 (my first external riaa).

raphaelmabo
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Re: Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by raphaelmabo » 30 Jan 2020 20:29

JAHsenec wrote:
30 Jan 2020 19:15
After reading some reviews I decided to upgrade my Denon DP-300F turntable with a new cartridge. I finally chose Denon DL-110 based on some reviews that valued this combination.

I am using the turntable with stereo integrated amplifier NAD 310. When I was on Denon factory cartridge, I had the pre-amp built in the TT turned on, worked fine. Changing the cartridge to the new one, I am hearing a loud periodical beats that deems the recording inaudible.
The DL-110 should work on the DP-300F, I've seen several owners of the DP-300F that has the DL-110 and this works fine.

What do you mean with "periodical beats"? Does it happens on all records? Is it an electrical sound? The DL-110 may be more sensitive to static electricity than your previous cartridge, and it also may be more sensitive to worn out records because of a different stylus. I've had a DL-110 myself and yes, it will show up static electricity.

Clean your records, use an antistatic mat.
Try to re-install the cartridge.
Check the wires to the cartridge.
Try to re-position your turntable, perhaps more away from the amplifier and the speakers. Can the sound be acoustic feedback?

Legrace
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Re: Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by Legrace » 30 Jan 2020 20:31

raphaelmabo wrote:
30 Jan 2020 20:21
Legrace wrote:
30 Jan 2020 20:09
Problem could be relationship with phono pre is like mother in law, not the best. Output of 110 cartridge is only 1.6 mv, typical MM type are 4+. Not the answer you are seeking, but probably to have good result with this cartridge require separate phono pre. And one that is having MC input as well.
The DL-110 is designed for MM phono stages with 47K ohm loading. I've had one, it worked without problems in my MM phono stages, even with a cheap NAD PP1 (my first external riaa).
Diagnosis is not for certain. Just that external stage, even cheap one, is normally superior to TT built in type.

edit: good point about feedback possibility.

JAHsenec
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Re: Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by JAHsenec » 30 Jan 2020 21:13

Hello,

thanks for the answer / tips.

Well, it is like a heart beat, or maybe a thump is more appropriate expression for the sound. Anyway, I recorded it, not the best quality, but you will get the picture.



It does happen on all my records.
Records were cleaned, no change.
Same goes for re-installing the cartridge, no change.
Wires are connected as per the installation manual.
I also tried taking the TT as far as possible from the set-up, sadly, nothing changed.

I think I am running out of options here.

Thanks.
raphaelmabo wrote:
30 Jan 2020 20:29
JAHsenec wrote:
30 Jan 2020 19:15
After reading some reviews I decided to upgrade my Denon DP-300F turntable with a new cartridge. I finally chose Denon DL-110 based on some reviews that valued this combination.

I am using the turntable with stereo integrated amplifier NAD 310. When I was on Denon factory cartridge, I had the pre-amp built in the TT turned on, worked fine. Changing the cartridge to the new one, I am hearing a loud periodical beats that deems the recording inaudible.
The DL-110 should work on the DP-300F, I've seen several owners of the DP-300F that has the DL-110 and this works fine.

What do you mean with "periodical beats"? Does it happens on all records? Is it an electrical sound? The DL-110 may be more sensitive to static electricity than your previous cartridge, and it also may be more sensitive to worn out records because of a different stylus. I've had a DL-110 myself and yes, it will show up static electricity.

Clean your records, use an antistatic mat.
Try to re-install the cartridge.
Check the wires to the cartridge.
Try to re-position your turntable, perhaps more away from the amplifier and the speakers. Can the sound be acoustic feedback?

raphaelmabo
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Re: Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by raphaelmabo » 31 Jan 2020 14:49

Thank you for your recording. It do sounds like an electrical problem, an electric discharge. Could be static electricity. It's indeed very regular. What happens if you mount back the original cartridge?

If this sound is gone when you disconnect the built-in phono pre, then this may suggest that there's something wrong with it. In that case, an external phono pre is a good solution. Something like the Thorens MM-Flex can be mounted at the back of the turntable (by the use of velcro pads). It's quite compact so it will not be a visible extra box. :)

JAHsenec
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Re: Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by JAHsenec » 03 Feb 2020 14:34

raphaelmabo wrote:
31 Jan 2020 14:49
Thank you for your recording. It do sounds like an electrical problem, an electric discharge. Could be static electricity. It's indeed very regular. What happens if you mount back the original cartridge?

If this sound is gone when you disconnect the built-in phono pre, then this may suggest that there's something wrong with it. In that case, an external phono pre is a good solution. Something like the Thorens MM-Flex can be mounted at the back of the turntable (by the use of velcro pads). It's quite compact so it will not be a visible extra box. :)
Hello,

thanks for the tip, I am going to try with the Thorens magic box :) one question though, I keep reading that the phono is for MM cartridges, however the DL-110 is an MC one, does that pose an issue?

Thanks.

raphaelmabo
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Re: Denon DP-300F with Denon DL-110 issue

Post by raphaelmabo » 04 Feb 2020 07:11

JAHsenec wrote:
03 Feb 2020 14:34
thanks for the tip, I am going to try with the Thorens magic box :) one question though, I keep reading that the phono is for MM cartridges, however the DL-110 is an MC one, does that pose an issue?
The DL-110 is a high-output MC, it's designed to be used in MM inputs not MC. It should not be used in MC inputs.

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