TTS-3000 Sony throws belt ?

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audiopile
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TTS-3000 Sony throws belt ?

Post by audiopile » 21 Sep 2019 18:08

Recently bought a TTS-3000 with a modified Rabco SL-8e mounted on it. Mounted a cart and tried it out on the work bench and speed adjusted according to both the internal strobe and my KAB speed checker disc/flasher - ran it for about three hours -stayed on speed. Had of course cleaned out spindle well and spindle/bearing , motor pulley and drive surface of the platter with 91% alcky -then relubed according to service manual before running it the first time. Arm tracks across record as it should -haven't actually listened to it yet - because when I brought it upstairs and plugged it into the system - started up and immediately threw the belt ! Have tried both sides of belt - repeatedly- W*F ? I'm going to try talcing the belt and will probably order a new belt (23.2 apparently) - but it is so strange that it ran fine in the basement -trip upstairs and it pops the belt off every time. It does have one other issue (insert sound of teeth grinding) - some genius some time in the past decided to damp the platter by very liberally applying silicone caulk to the bottom of the platter -lots of it-all over except the drive portion of the platter. I sorta suspect Sony didn't have too many machinists and had to find something for them to do -so had them dynamically balance this platter . I'm pretty sure the glop was NOT applied so as to keep the platter balanced . Anybody got any idea how to take this stuff off ? I'll probably just transfer the arm to one of my other tables with a Rabco bracket already mounted on it. Hope the arm actually works - this mod allows SME style headshells to be swapped onto it - if it works -very KOOL !

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Re: TTS-3000 Sony throws belt ?

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 21 Sep 2019 20:12

Just throwing darts in a dark room here, but it is entirely possible the belt is being thrown because of the silicone goop you describe. Many "golden ear" types pursue such DIY approaches in pursuit of resonances and harmonics they seem to perceive. I tend to the opposite camp, trusting the skilled engineers and designers who actually constructed the components, all the while testing and tuning for best overall sound from the turntable. A light application may impart some level of change in these perceived anomalies, but too much may be "shocking" the motor during start up, and throwing off the belt. Perhaps if you could locate an identical platter to test this theory? A new belt would also be a first attempt at a solution. There are silicone release solutions, but not able to recall what they might be or sources. Hopefully it is a simple solution for you. Like I said, just throwing this out as an idea. Good luck..... #-o [-o<

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Re: TTS-3000 Sony throws belt ?

Post by audiopile » 22 Sep 2019 03:26

OK -good progress -went out and bought about 7-10 lifetimes supply of Johnsons baby talc. Shook some into a plastic bag - threw belt in bag and shook. Very slight improvement- now the belt stayed on the platter when it was thrown off the motor pulley. Previously it had stayed on speed with a fairly heavy puck , a platter matter mat (in my experience these do a excellent job of dampening the platter -much better than slopin stuff onto the bottom .) - playin a record.So tried starting with the belt positioned about 1/2 way on the platter drive rim and then stretched over to the motor pulley -it stays on and runs at speed -with platter matter matt and weight . I have been able to turn it on and off several times now without it throwing the belt off. It's entirely possible some of the silicone "peaks" were grabing it on the first revolution and helping to throw it off ? But works now and so does the arm - new belts by the end of next week just seems wise. And despite some pretty strange /outlandish mods I've tried over the years - I try to draw the line at non-reversible "modifications" - otherwise I'm just muckin it up for the next owner/user. I also agree that assumptions of incompetence on the part of the original designers/builders of 60's-70's 80's gear are in a fairly large number of models just not supported by my experience fixin 'em and using 'em - and most importantly listening thru them. Yup- lots of cheap mass market junk that now resides in trash heaps - but the best of the best that could be built back then is oftentimes as good as anything you can buy or build today - at least when it comes playin records. Fortunately -today- you can spend a whole bucket more money on equipment -be interesting to see what % of that stuff is still makin music in the 60's ?

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Re: TTS-3000 Sony throws belt ?

Post by Sunwire » 22 Sep 2019 06:15

I own a Sony PS-2250, which is around the same vintage as the TTS-3000.
The turntable seemed to completely lack any kind of damping, at all.
Lots of large pieces of metal and wood free to resonate.
And it always sounded that way to me, too.
As if the music was coming out of a box. You could hear the wood in the sound.
I haven't used it in years and someday I'll need to fire it up and see if I can record this sound and see if it was just my imagination or not.
As with your turntable, the rubber mat on my Sony was replaced with a Platter Matter mat, either by me or the original owner, I can't remember which of us anymore. I think it needed it, but the plinth rang like a bell, too.

Engineers don't get to make all the decisions about the design of turntables or other products.
There are visual designers, sales people, accountants, and manufacturing process people involved, too.
So good engineering principles can sometimes be thrown out the window no matter what the audio engineers would prefer.

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Re: TTS-3000 Sony throws belt ?

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 22 Sep 2019 07:11

I would suggest a bit of an analogy, considering the results of your talc dusting of the belt. I believe the talc has allowed a slight amount of slippage by the belt, much like an automatic transmission on a car, resulting in a smooth engagement of the platter "gear". Prior to this, the /drive pulley reacted similarly to a person dumping the clutch on a standard transmission...often with breakage, a stall, or the clutch "belt" kicking back out of gear. I support your comments as well as regards the competence and abilities of original manufacturers to produce and promote their best possible product. The better brands of vintage equipment were in a sales war, and poor quality would be quickly rejected. Does not necessarily apply to modern equipment based on many of the stories of buyers of that same equipment that we read here. There is a very good reason vintage equipment is still with us , is in high demand, and commands solid prices. The quality was built in, to last, often with no compromise. Few of us would be able to afford the same quality items at todays inflated pricing. I'm hoping to hear that this has completely solved your problem. Cheers! =D>

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Re: TTS-3000 Sony throws belt ?

Post by audiopile » 22 Sep 2019 17:10

The old talc trick was AFAIK first mentioned in the manual for the truly classic AR XA turntable (and that's exactly what it does -slips on start up) - I've been running mostly quartz locked DD for the last few years and this is of course a non problem with them. The ringing platters issue is so easily and efficiently solved with a thicker compliant mat that it just drives me nutz when i run into this particular blob it on mod - I've always turned down buying anything with this "mod" done to it. This particular seller was very sparse and somewhat confusing with his pic's -the bottom of the platter was left as a surprise ? But the arm had me really intrigued - SME style headshells that I have a LOT of - on a Rabco - it IS very sweet. I temporarily moved my JVC QL-Y5f out to put the Sony/Rabco in it's spot - both tables definitely have resonant box bases. I just haven't heard the problems that "should?" result from these boxes ? To be clear -I listen to a wide range of types/styles/genres of music - quite a few have bass-even lots of sustained deep bass. But I don't run sub(s) - while Meridian DSP-5000 certainly have bass - they don't go subsonic (below 20 hz). I wonder if this is why I haven't experienced the boomy box syndrome here ?

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Re: TTS-3000 Sony throws belt ?

Post by audiopile » 23 Sep 2019 17:35

Spent some time very carefully measuring the overhang of this arm/table and am very pleased that whoever modded this decided that the Technics 52mm from headshell collar to stylus tip was their standard. This means all the carts already set up for the arms on my SL-1200/10 tables just drop when ( set VTF and VTA -easy on the Rabco). I'm enjoyin this new purchase.

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