Vogue Picture Disc

3 minute wonder
Coffee Phil
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Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Coffee Phil » 20 Jan 2017 19:08

There has not been much fast spinning activity here for a while so I figured I'd put this up.

My first Vogue Picture disc is on the way. http://www.ebay.com/itm/192062812081

The band is the Clyde McCoy band which is definitely NOT the Basie band, but I'm guessing it will be listenable.

These records appeared for a short time after WW2. They were typically 10" 78 RPM (standard groove I believe) records. They were aluminum discs upon which printed pictures were attached. The paper was covered with clear vinyl into which the record was pressed.

I understand that they can sound very good. We shall see. I do have some vinyl standard groove 78s of that era and they sound good so I can believe the Vogue records should also sound good.

Phil

Rocky_Road
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Rocky_Road » 20 Jan 2017 19:52

This needs the larger 78rpm needle, I assume?

I have a SHURE M78S....

Happy tracking,
Rocky

Coffee Phil
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Coffee Phil » 20 Jan 2017 20:27

Hi Rocky,

I have yet to actually see one physically however considering when they were made I would assume they use standard groove (~2.5 mil) styli. The picture on the eBay listing sure looks to me like standard groove.

They predate the 45s and the 33 1/3 RPM Lps we know. Later after 45s & Lps appeared there were some microgroove 78s. I have some on the Audiophile and Turntable label and they sound very good. There were also 7" 78s which appeared to be microgroove records, but they were budget items and were likely played on old 78 players with who knows what stylus (needle).

Phil
Rocky_Road wrote:This needs the larger 78rpm needle, I assume?

I have a SHURE M78S....

Happy tracking,
Rocky

Big B5515
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Big B5515 » 21 Jan 2017 00:06

While I haven't been record shopping lately, this, my only Vogue record so far has been hanging around on the wall for almost 20 years, I think it turned up in an all for $10 box from a flea market or something.
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Rocky_Road
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Rocky_Road » 21 Jan 2017 00:29

Coffee Phil wrote:There has not been much fast spinning activity here for a while so I figured I'd put this up.

My first Vogue Picture disc is on the way. http://www.ebay.com/itm/192062812081

The band is the Clyde McCoy band which is definitely NOT the Basie band, but I'm guessing it will be listenable.

These records appeared for a short time after WW2. They were typically 10" 78 RPM (standard groove I believe) records. They were aluminum discs upon which printed pictures were attached. The paper was covered with clear vinyl into which the record was pressed.

I understand that they can sound very good. We shall see. I do have some vinyl standard groove 78s of that era and they sound good so I can believe the Vogue records should also sound good.

Phil
I just made the same purchase!

Even if it doesn't sound good...it makes for one heck of a conversation maker!

Happy tracking,
Rocky

vinyl master
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by vinyl master » 21 Jan 2017 06:00

Interesting...The one I have is "The Whiffenpoof Song" by Art Kassel and His Orchestra...

Coffee Phil
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Coffee Phil » 21 Jan 2017 20:24

Hi Big B,

Maybe it is my age but I love the look of those ladies from the '40s.

Have you played this yet? Please do and report, but please not on one of your lovely acoustic machines as the playing surface is vinyl.

Phil

Big B5515 wrote:While I haven't been record shopping lately, this, my only Vogue record so far has been hanging around on the wall for almost 20 years, I think it turned up in an all for $10 box from a flea market or something.
IMG_1858.JPG
IMG_1861.JPG

Coffee Phil
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Coffee Phil » 21 Jan 2017 20:31

Hi Rocky,

On this site : http://www.voguepicturerecords.org/records.html that is listed as one of the most common titles. That is probably why it is possible to get a good looking copy without taking out a mortgage on your house.

Depending on how this one goes I may pop for more titles.

Phil
Rocky_Road wrote:
Coffee Phil wrote:There has not been much fast spinning activity here for a while so I figured I'd put this up.

My first Vogue Picture disc is on the way. http://www.ebay.com/itm/192062812081

The band is the Clyde McCoy band which is definitely NOT the Basie band, but I'm guessing it will be listenable.

These records appeared for a short time after WW2. They were typically 10" 78 RPM (standard groove I believe) records. They were aluminum discs upon which printed pictures were attached. The paper was covered with clear vinyl into which the record was pressed.

I understand that they can sound very good. We shall see. I do have some vinyl standard groove 78s of that era and they sound good so I can believe the Vogue records should also sound good.

Phil
I just made the same purchase!

Even if it doesn't sound good...it makes for one heck of a conversation maker!

Happy tracking,
Rocky

Rocky_Road
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Rocky_Road » 21 Jan 2017 20:48

Coffee Phil wrote:Hi Rocky,

On this site : http://www.voguepicturerecords.org/records.html that is listed as one of the most common titles. That is probably why it is possible to get a good looking copy without taking out a mortgage on your house.

Depending on how this one goes I may pop for more titles.

Phil
Rocky_Road wrote:
Coffee Phil wrote:There has not been much fast spinning activity here for a while so I figured I'd put this up.

My first Vogue Picture disc is on the way. http://www.ebay.com/itm/192062812081

The band is the Clyde McCoy band which is definitely NOT the Basie band, but I'm guessing it will be listenable.

These records appeared for a short time after WW2. They were typically 10" 78 RPM (standard groove I believe) records. They were aluminum discs upon which printed pictures were attached. The paper was covered with clear vinyl into which the record was pressed.

I understand that they can sound very good. We shall see. I do have some vinyl standard groove 78s of that era and they sound good so I can believe the Vogue records should also sound good.

Phil
I just made the same purchase!

Even if it doesn't sound good...it makes for one heck of a conversation maker!

Happy tracking,
Rocky
Great reading! Those guys sound like the Mobile Fidelity of the late 1940's....

Waiting on mine to get here, and glad I kept my SHURE M78 cartridge from my 78's project.

I'll post my thoughts after listening to mine.

Happy tracking,
Rocky

Coffee Phil
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Coffee Phil » 21 Jan 2017 22:52

Hi Vinyl Master,

I'll have to look for that.

Here is the definitive (in my view) version of that tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXXlZgiyFX4

This is Louis Armstrong at one his California concerts in the '50s. The new lyrics to the tune are a roast of Dizzy and all of the Be-Boppers. At that time there was hostility between the traditional Jazz folks and the Be-Boppers which would rival the political rancor of today.

There is also a version with video but it lacks Louis marvalous trumpet solo so I chose this one.

Later Louis and Dizzy became good friends and even played together. Dizzy did acknowledge his debt to Louis and even stated "No Louis, no Dizzy".

Phil

vinyl master wrote:Interesting...The one I have is "The Whiffenpoof Song" by Art Kassel and His Orchestra...

Big B5515
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Big B5515 » 23 Jan 2017 07:36

Coffee Phil wrote:Hi Big B,

Maybe it is my age but I love the look of those ladies from the '40s.

Have you played this yet? Please do and report, but please not on one of your lovely acoustic machines as the playing surface is vinyl.

Phil

Big B5515 wrote:While I haven't been record shopping lately, this, my only Vogue record so far has been hanging around on the wall for almost 20 years, I think it turned up in an all for $10 box from a flea market or something.
IMG_1858.JPG
IMG_1861.JPG
It's been a while,so I unburied my ATLP 120 from under the scope, cleaned the record, and gave it a spin. My record has slight warp, signs of some previous steel needle wear and light noise from this and a few scuffs, however still has a very quiet sounding surface for a 78. While I tend to normally notice reduced High frequencies on this turntable, It did sound a little on the muddy side as I often notice especially with Columbia records, and possibly also due to the wear. If made of vinyl, record still seems much harder material than a LP, so I only used soap and water just in case.

Coffee Phil
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Coffee Phil » 23 Jan 2017 08:19

Big B5515 wrote:
Coffee Phil wrote:Hi Big B,

Maybe it is my age but I love the look of those ladies from the '40s.

Have you played this yet? Please do and report, but please not on one of your lovely acoustic machines as the playing surface is vinyl.

Phil

Big B5515 wrote:While I haven't been record shopping lately, this, my only Vogue record so far has been hanging around on the wall for almost 20 years, I think it turned up in an all for $10 box from a flea market or something.
IMG_1858.JPG
IMG_1861.JPG
It's been a while,so I unburied my ATLP 120 from under the scope, cleaned the record, and gave it a spin. My record has slight warp, signs of some previous steel needle wear and light noise from this and a few scuffs, however still has a very quiet sounding surface for a 78. While I tend to normally notice reduced High frequencies on this turntable, It did sound a little on the muddy side as I often notice especially with Columbia records, and possibly also due to the wear. If made of vinyl, record still seems much harder material than a LP, so I only used soap and water just in case.

Coffee Phil
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Posts: 5747
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Coffee Phil » 04 Feb 2017 04:05

My Clyde McCoy Vogue record arrived.

As I expected the music is tolerable but as I said "sure not the Basie Band". The record looked pretty good other than a few cracks in the vinyl near the spindle hole. I played it with my GE RPX and since the record looks to be standard groove I used the 78 stylus. Since I do not have any published data on EQ I used 3180 Hz for treble cut and 300 Hz for bass turn.
The EQ seemed OK but the record is noisy and there is a fair bit of rumble. I switched to the Lp stylus and the noise seemed to be a bit less. It could be that the smaller stylus is contacting vinyl which was not ravaged by an acoustic pickup. I know Expert stylus makes styli for this sort of thing. Maybe a 2 mil stylus would be better.

I can't explain the rumble. Most shellac 78s are better than this. I'm guessing that the vinyl is starting to de-laminate from the picture. I see no visible evidence of this however.

I guess this is a historical artifact and something to hang on the wall in my stereo room. No regret buying it as it looks nice. I may buy the one which Big B showed for just the picture if nothing else. As I said it may be my age but I just love those ladies of that era.

Phil

Coffee Phil
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Coffee Phil » 04 Feb 2017 04:06

My Clyde McCoy Vogue record arrived.

As I expected the music is tolerable but as I said "sure not the Basie Band". The record looked pretty good other than a few cracks in the vinyl near the spindle hole. I played it with my GE RPX and since the record looks to be standard groove I used the 78 stylus. Since I do not have any published data on EQ I used 3180 Hz for treble cut and 300 Hz for bass turn.
The EQ seemed OK but the record is noisy and there is a fair bit of rumble. I switched to the Lp stylus and the noise seemed to be a bit less. It could be that the smaller stylus is contacting vinyl which was not ravaged by an acoustic pickup. I know Expert stylus makes styli for this sort of thing. Maybe a 2 mil stylus would be better.

I can't explain the rumble. Most shellac 78s are better than this. I'm guessing that the vinyl is starting to de-laminate from the picture. I see no visible evidence of this however.

I guess this is a historical artifact and something to hang on the wall in my stereo room. No regret buying it as it looks nice. I may buy the one which Big B showed for just the picture if nothing else. As I said it may be my age but I just love those ladies of that era.

Phil

Rocky_Road
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Re: Vogue Picture Disc

Post by Rocky_Road » 04 Feb 2017 05:26

Coffee Phil wrote:My Clyde McCoy Vogue record arrived.

As I expected the music is tolerable but as I said "sure not the Basie Band". The record looked pretty good other than a few cracks in the vinyl near the spindle hole. I played it with my GE RPX and since the record looks to be standard groove I used the 78 stylus. Since I do not have any published data on EQ I used 3180 Hz for treble cut and 300 Hz for bass turn.
The EQ seemed OK but the record is noisy and there is a fair bit of rumble. I switched to the Lp stylus and the noise seemed to be a bit less. It could be that the smaller stylus is contacting vinyl which was not ravaged by an acoustic pickup. I know Expert stylus makes styli for this sort of thing. Maybe a 2 mil stylus would be better.

I can't explain the rumble. Most shellac 78s are better than this. I'm guessing that the vinyl is starting to de-laminate from the picture. I see no visible evidence of this however.

I guess this is a historical artifact and something to hang on the wall in my stereo room. No regret buying it as it looks nice. I may buy the one which Big B showed for just the picture if nothing else. As I said it may be my age but I just love those ladies of that era.

Phil
I actually thought that I had posted my Vogue experience, but must have hit the wrong 'button'!

What I remember saying, is exactly what you just posted: lot's of surface noise...even though mine looked as 'mint' as you could picture. I was using my SHURE M78S cartridge, so I can't blame my setup.

Bottom line, is that I fall back on my expectations: it may not be a great band, and it may not play all that good...but it is a 'sweet' piece of record history, and I am happy to show it to incredulous visitors!

Happy tracking,
Rocky

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