How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

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Bob Dillon
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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by Bob Dillon » 15 May 2019 03:31

That's right. I think Shorpy.com is a rich source of those old kinds of photos.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by circularvibes » 15 May 2019 03:33

Bob Dillon wrote:
15 May 2019 03:26
Well, I have paper record sleeves in my possession dating back to at least 1905. If you're talking about real early Berliners or something, maybe that's something else.
Those early sleeves were paid for by the shop keeper and he was supposed to stamp the name and address of his shop to encourage repeat customers. The sleeves were an advertising medium, not intended for protection, that was an afterthought. In some cases, the record company would provide sleeves for free if they were advertising particular artists or new machines. I have also seen advertising for the "new Columbia Double Discs" as well.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by Bob Dillon » 15 May 2019 03:39

Of course the sleeves weren't really for protection. They were company sleeves, like Columbia, Victor, to advertise the company product. Sure there were dealer stamps on them. That's how records and phonographs were mainly sold then, though little storefront dealers.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by circularvibes » 15 May 2019 03:46

Thanks for the link. I find that kind of stuff clickbait on a long night. Keep in mind that in the acoustic days, music dealers only sold records of one or two brands. It was not like today where we buy records for the artist. You would not see Columbia records in the same store as Edison or Victor. They had contracts with non compete clauses. That was why record companies were advertised more. Records had set prices back then, dealers could not discount. The trick was to sell a machine on the merits of how that companies records sounded on it. As to the photos I saw, they were from the archives of libraries in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal (home of Berliner). When I come home with a paper bag with a store advertised on it, I start googling for pictures.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by Bob Dillon » 15 May 2019 03:58

circularvibes wrote:
15 May 2019 03:46
Thanks for the link. I find that kind of stuff clickbait on a long night. Keep in mind that in the acoustic days, music dealers only sold records of one or two brands. It was not like today where we buy records for the artist. You would not see Columbia records in the same store as Edison or Victor. They had contracts with non compete clauses.
Edison dealer, Victor dealer, sure. Many popular artists from the early days, like the evergreen Billy Murray, recorded for all the major companies, they recorded for a flat fee per side.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by circularvibes » 15 May 2019 04:04

The flat fee per side is why early double discs had two different artists on one disc. I am a fan of early comedy records myself. Nothing funnier than Uncle Zed buys a Graphophone.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by Bob Dillon » 15 May 2019 04:07

Cylinder records had only one "side" so I'm not sure you're claim is correct. Also , the Columbia Double Disc records were introduced in 1908. Prior to that most disc records were single sided. The Odeon label may be the one expection as far as double sided disc records prior to that.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by circularvibes » 15 May 2019 04:45

I refer to a side as one song. Cylinders do adhere to that standard. Edison payed his performers poorly from what I hear, but duplicating cylinders wasn't as easy as disc records. Columbia and Victor started the double sided disc at around the same time. They charged more for them too, even when the discs were pressed from two existing masters. Most companies followed suit after the big labels made the change to a two sided standard. The only labels I can remember holding onto single sided discs were Little Wonder up to about 1920 and Durium records such as Hit Of The Week series in the 1930's.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by Bob Dillon » 15 May 2019 04:56

Sigh.

Columbia double-disc records were sold at 75 cents, which undercut the competition at the time. There was a little record fad in the late 'teens of which Little Wonder was one player at that. Little Wonder didn't manufacture records "up to" 1920.

This is so far off thread topic, I think we should leave this for now.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by josephazannieri » 15 May 2019 05:03

Yo storers of 78's

My commercial 78 RPM albums are stored vertically in shelves that are made of 3/4 inch birch plywood and supported by 2X2 lumber to keep the shelves from sagging. I have numbers of 78 RPM classical albums, usually complete concerti or symphonies. However, many jazz artists produced albums, usually 2 or 3 10" 78s or 2 or 3 12" 78s. For example, I have several sets of jazz 78s, for example, "Waller On The Ivories," and "The New John Kirby with Sarah Vaughn," both albums with 2 10"78s.

I also have several old 78 albums designed for storage of loose 78s (either 10" or 12"). These albums have lines on the inside covers which permit me to write the title and artist of each record so that I can find the music I seek. These albums were inherited from my parents. If the sleeves in the albums have split on the bottoms, I put a paper sleeve from Bags Unlimited in the album sleeve to keep the record from sliding through the bottom of the album sleeve.

I have a number of very old acoustic records that still have their original paper sleeves with period advertising with names of singers such as Caruso and Galli-Curci on them, so some 78 singles apparently were sold in sleeves.

I also have designed a set of peach crates that I use for loose 45s and 78s. They are made to measure, about 1/2 inch bigger than the record. I have plans for them if you want to build them, and they work very well, holding the records vertical and permitting the entire crate to be placed on a table and allowing the records to be withdrawn easily. The materials are 3/4 inch plywood for the front and back ends, and slats made from 2 X 4 framing lumber cut into 1/4 inch slats on a table saw. They are glued and nailed together. I also have purchased paper sleeves in which to store the records to keep the playing surfaces from rubbing against each other while stored in the peach crates.

If anybody wants the plans for the peach crates, I will happily send them, but I need the requester to PM me with an Email address to send the plans to. VE will not accept images from my computer, and I have had helpful suggestions from readers that just haven't worked.

And good luck from the old 78 storer and spinner,

Joe Z.
Last edited by josephazannieri on 15 May 2019 05:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by circularvibes » 15 May 2019 05:06

Fair enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Wonder_Records Little Wonder Records was a United States record label from 1914 through 1923.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by AudioFeline » 15 May 2019 07:35

circularvibes wrote:
15 May 2019 03:28
I should also note that 78's were kept in slots on a wall behind the counter in better shops before the 1920's. The customer would ask for a sleeve or album with the purchase of records...
It's also why you will find many 78 sleeves that advertise the store, and not the record label.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by AudioFeline » 15 May 2019 07:42

circularvibes wrote:
15 May 2019 02:36
...The biggest problem with albums is that the glue on the pages deteriorates and lets the records slide closer to the spine and when the pages are turned, they break the records inside. ...
Yes. Whenever I look through an album of 78's, I never fully open it so I don't break disks. However, I find many broken disks in albums. Recently I bought an album of Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, all in excellent condition with the exception of one disk in the set that was broken. The retailer priced the set as the number of records, and did not understand that I was buying an incomplete set.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by AudioFeline » 15 May 2019 07:43

circularvibes wrote:
15 May 2019 02:36
...A simple and cheapish alternative is to buy 10 by 17 inch manilla envelopes and cut to size. If you look around, you can find deals sometimes on a box of 500 at stationers like Staples. These won't fit acoustic discs but for 1930's to 50's discs they are fine. A cheap circle cutter from an art store can custom cut holes for labels.
A great idea, thanks for the suggestion. I will go to the stationery warehouse on the way home from work.

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Re: How do you store loose 78's shellacs?

Post by circularvibes » 15 May 2019 20:43

AudioFeline wrote:
15 May 2019 07:43
A great idea, thanks for the suggestion. I will go to the stationery warehouse on the way home from work.
Let us know how you make out. Glad to be of service. I used to cut to size with an old paper cutter from a school but you may have a better solution at your end of the world. As to breaking discs in albums, I pull the record to the outside edge before turning the pages. This way you don't snap them in the binding and the book can lie flat. I'd rather wear out the book than break the discs.