45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

jukebox jury
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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Retro Supply Store » 28 Aug 2016 15:10

If maintained jukeboxes are actually not too bad on records. Cheap old 1960s domestic players with worn out stylus and dodgy groove tracking ability are far more guilty in my opinion.

Another factor is that even up to the early 1970s, plenty of 45s were mono, so using a stylus wired for mono will cut out a lot of noise of these recordings.

For 45s I like the Ortofon OM DJ range, tracking at 4g. Very robust stylus and gets the best out of records in less than perfect condition. I have one wired stereo and another mono to swap over.

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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by IndigoRock2001 » 05 Jul 2018 01:33

Actually one of my favorite 45's is In Crowd which came from a juke box. I love it above others because it is totally trashed, but in the way that only a juke will do. Not scratched at all, just a Fffffffff so heavy that it equals the music in loudness. When I hear it I imagine I can hear the hundreds of drunken nights when it play'd over and over in some dive bar in the early/mid 60's. A time when it was such a big hit according to Lou Reed walking down the street you could hear it coming from every open window in New York. I have a cleaner copy of In Crowd but I always prefer the trashed one. I feel like I can hear the noise of the bar and of the 60's cut into it along with the music.
Indi

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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Jdog1958 » 28 Jul 2018 08:03

I remember having a cheap phonograph and a stack of 45's. Some were in such bad shape, I would tape a penny to the top of the tone-arm to get them to track. This is when I was 12 I think.

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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Pauw » 19 Feb 2019 17:59

Interesting that it is reported that "early Beatles records sound trashed " ...In the UK many 45s were well cut even were cut hot...I have quite a few early Beatles Parlophone singles...they look a bit beaten up but they play wonderfully ....as do many 60s UK 45s.

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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by KentT » 21 May 2019 03:49

This is Kent here. I use .7 mil conical stylus options on broadcast cartridges or DJ cartridges for playing back 45 RPM singles, especially styrene. Also, .3 x .7 mil elliptical styli are also fine for this application if you are careful, don't back cue, and keep tracking forces at 2 grams or less on well cared for examples.

Not all Jukeboxes have ceramic cartridges either. AMI-Rowe has used Shure magnetic cartridges since the Continental models (and used GE and Columbia-CBS magnetics before that). Seeburg has since the first M 100B 45 RPM jukebox (Pickering) and Rock-Ola has since 1968 on (Shure M 44-C). Every 1964 and later AMI-Rowe used Shure M 44-C to the end of 45 RPM jukeboxes, and Wurlitzer's OMT also used Shure. As stated earlier, I deal with 45 RPM playback every day, old and new. If you have questions, I will assist you the best I can.

Also, as tubewade does, I use Stevenson alignment (it gives me the best practical results, with the least record wear). I also like him damaged my fair share of 45 RPM singles, at home, before I had an epiphany.

Which was, why do 45 RPM singles track so well at work, have such clean, and low distortion playback, and they sound like crap at home?. I mulled it over and said to myself, DUH! You're using the wrong stylus for the application. I was dubbing to digital old 45 RPM singles to use on the air when the station ran the music on hard drive/automation at home. When this came to me, I asked to take a Stanton 681A conical broadcast cartridge at home and some styli. Installed and set it up to Stevenson. The 45 RPM singles I cringed at hearing, sounded like music. From there, I bought more 45 RPM singles, and more broadcast/DJ cartridges and more conical and .3 x .7 mil conical styli. I also found 1950's and 1960's LP discs sounded better, mono and Stereo. Since then, I broadened my musical horizons, tried new and things I hadn't heard in too many years.

I wised up, became practical, and focused on music first, detail extremes last. Saved me a lot of money, and frustration, but still achieved excellent sound and less noise, and obnoxious distortion. And discovered far more diverse, and new to me music which deserved some love. And less frustration playing records with spasticity and physical challenges. And using styli until the tips got worn.

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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Pauw » 21 May 2019 06:40

I have spent several years in radio and I do think you do need a different set up for 45 singles...I use a Philips GA 212 set up with a conical stylus tracking at 2.75g. This is dedicated to 45 use only and although some smile at a Philips G800 cartridge, it does sound great with 45s . It is not really the first choice of many looking for hi-fi from a 33 rpm set up , but for 45s its profile really does give excellent results. To y mind 45 rpm 7 inch singles do need a dedicated set up to get a good enjoyable sound and it has not the same approach as a traditional hi-fi approach can achieve

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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Mrs Ritchie Valens » 09 Jul 2019 22:23

Like most of you, pretty much all of the 45's sound bad. But sometimes, I don't mind. I think it gets you in that retro mood.
I do agree with all the points that have been made. Bad pressings, people not handleing them the right way, or with care. How the record was recorded. What kind of player was used to play it/ needle. The 45's not being keptpotected.
Do any of you guys own a vintage record changer? I have a 1961 Emerson Genral Electric Wildcat with built in speakers.

vinyl master
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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by vinyl master » 10 Jul 2019 05:17

Mrs Ritchie Valens wrote: ↑
09 Jul 2019 22:23
Like most of you, pretty much all of the 45's sound bad. But sometimes, I don't mind. I think it gets you in that retro mood.
I do agree with all the points that have been made. Bad pressings, people not handleing them the right way, or with care. How the record was recorded. What kind of player was used to play it/ needle. The 45's not being keptpotected.
Do any of you guys own a vintage record changer? I have a 1961 Emerson Genral Electric Wildcat with built in speakers.
Ah, you mean like my very first one here??? :wink:

27714

I also have this from a local estate sale, a very different Wildcat...One day I might have to look for the proper speakers, which it didn't come with...

28355

Of course, speaking of record changers, I own these three bad boys now...

29585
32598
35639

Nothing like rock-solid German engineering and all were obtained at good prices! :)

Mrs Ritchie Valens
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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Mrs Ritchie Valens » 11 Jul 2019 15:21

Yeah, mine might need some light work just to keep it going. It's like 55/ 56 years old. I don't know what the model number is on it though.

vinyl master
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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by vinyl master » 11 Jul 2019 16:14

By the way, if you guys want to see a really tricked out Wildcat, look at what Chuck Miller (I used to read his articles in "Goldmine" magazine all the time!) did to his GE! :D



I also have a smaller sea-green Slimline phonograph, similar to the Wildcat, but smaller...If you want to get the Wildcat into fighting shape as a cool, fun retro machine (and if any more of you guys have one), watch these videos...









It was my first record player ever, so I have a bit of sentimental attachment to it... 8-[

Mrs Ritchie Valens
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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Mrs Ritchie Valens » 17 Jul 2019 21:48

vinyl master wrote: ↑
11 Jul 2019 16:14
By the way, if you guys want to see a really tricked out Wildcat, look at what Chuck Miller (I used to read his articles in "Goldmine" magazine all the time!) did to his GE! :D



I also have a smaller sea-green Slimline phonograph, similar to the Wildcat, but smaller...If you want to get the Wildcat into fighting shape as a cool, fun retro machine (and if any more of you guys have one), watch these videos...









It was my first record player ever, so I have a bit of sentimental attachment to it... 8-[
Vinyl Master,
My record changer is actualy a Emerson Wildcat model number DS5-51. I had gotten it off of ebay. It's portable with built in speakers. The lid has the speakers on the sides of it; and they don't swing out as some record changers do.

vinyl master
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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by vinyl master » 18 Jul 2019 06:39

It does look similar, though, Mrs. Ritchie Valens...There were others, too, with lookalike designs like this Truetone model I saw at my local Vintage Electronics Expo a few years back...

40203

Maybe these look familiar, as well? :-k

40210

Hugues TR4
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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Hugues TR4 » 18 Jul 2019 10:26

27303

My very first 45 RPM changer, back in '58!
Found the same a few years ago on e-bay for 10$ and restored it to its original state.
Still occasionally play a few records on it and it is linked to my main HiFi chain (not stereo though and ceramic cart).
Still like and buy 45's whenever I have an opportunity (owe about 1200).
Great fun!
Hugh.

Mrs Ritchie Valens
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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by Mrs Ritchie Valens » 18 Jul 2019 16:39

Does anyone know of the model of my changer? I can't really find anything when I type it into google. emerson model DS5-51.
It's also not in this database, nore is the brand Emerson, for that matter.

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Re: 45RPM Singles - poor sound quality

Post by KentT » 21 Sep 2019 01:53

Emerson didn't make the changer. These Emersons used either BSR changers, or used Glenburn changers. Hope this helps you find service information.