Proper Speaker Placement

amplifiers, receivers and loudspeakers
lenjack
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by lenjack » 23 Feb 2019 22:43

Roy Allison started his own company, Allison Acoustics, after leaving Acoustic Research. He introduced a line of speakers, the Allison One, Two, Three, and Four, which were specifically designed to take advantage of the room boundary effects he talks about in these articles, but the principles involved, can be, to a somewhat lesser effect, applied to most any other speaker system. That's why I refer to them in this post.

vesper90
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by vesper90 » 26 Feb 2019 16:25

Sunwire wrote:
22 Feb 2019 21:47
Wavelength01.gifThe problem those "sound reflectors" is that they are far too small.
The wavelengths of low bass frequencies are very large. A small object like those reflectors will be "invisible" to low bass frequencies. The reflectors will change the sound, but they will only affect frequencies with wavelengths equal to or smaller than the size of the reflectors.
The reason speakers placed closer to a wall or corner produce more bass in the room is that the walls are large, so they reflect the low bass frequencies. A small object can't do that.
I think a subwoofer or an equalizer would be better solutions if you want more deep bass.
I think you have a good point there. Indeed this might not work.

davidpr
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by davidpr » 11 Apr 2019 12:14

I am lucky enough to have our smallest bedroom as my listening room. I should not moan but I wish it was bigger and more of a rectangle instead of being square-ish.

I have spent so much time placing my speakers in different positions and configurations but I have now found the secret! The room! The room is the most important element when positioning speakers and to get the best out of them you have to understand the room.

So I went against everything that I have read, placed the speakers along the longest wall, again, about 3' out from the back wall with the speakers 4' apart. The side walls are now well away from the speakers.

My listening positioning is just over 4' from the speakers but the chair is against the opposite wall.

For this room it works so well, really good sound stage, and it seems that the speakers have almost disappeared.

Looking at the room it would seem that I am sat too close to the speakers and that they were too close together. It looks a little strange but it works in this room.

lenjack
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by lenjack » 11 Apr 2019 15:49

Good for you! It doesn't matter how it looks.

Cintaku
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Cintaku » 09 May 2019 01:38

In my case the room and materials are so complex that none of those methods could apply.
Solution? Two actually.

1 - In a way I was lucky that back door had French doors. So I could totally eliminate standing ways (low frequencies) by opening them into the garden (very low noise outside - I am lucky). Plus no glass.

2 - I have placed my 60kg speakers on wheels and played around with speaker position, listening spot and positioning mid and high frequencies treatment (not going overboard).

Well, carpet is a must. Great enjoyment in this journey

Actually above gives me 2 major listening spots. Inside where I can enjoy music with stereo effect and situation where music does not seem to come from speakers but is 3D.

Outside (beyond back French Door - about 3 m in the garden) where music is more directional and it seems to be like if listening to life with players in the garden). It this case I can afford to crank speakers up for a great experience.

In the first case, it is one of those you close your eyes and concentrate on music. The second one is one where you can also read a book.

P.S. I have once attended a special HIFI concert on one of the islands here inside a bush. Nothing but trees and shrubs and quiet. The experience was worth spending 1 h on a ferry going each way (all day event). City Council gave special permission for it.

C2H3Cln2
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by C2H3Cln2 » 24 May 2019 04:42

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lenjack
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by lenjack » 24 May 2019 19:23

Why only Dynaco speakers? Also when you listen to live music, are the performers divided up like this? No doubt you like this, but it certainly isn't natural sound.

C2H3Cln2
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by C2H3Cln2 » 25 May 2019 16:49

lenjack wrote:
24 May 2019 19:23
Why only Dynaco speakers? Also when you listen to live music, are the performers divided up like this? No doubt you like this, but it certainly isn't natural sound.
For the size of my listening room, the Dynaco speakers are just the right size: big enough to not overwhelm. I suspect any speakers will do; size relative to the dimensions of the room. If by 'divided up' you mean the sound staging, where the sound of voices, instruments, appears to be coming from, yes, I was amazed by the virtual reality of it all. Just think of this: it is almost like wearing headphones. The verisimilitude is uncanny. As for 'natural sound', I don't know what you mean, in terms or recorded music.

Cheers

Adamo0926
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Adamo0926 » 26 Jun 2019 21:44

I come back to this thread every now and again as I find it quite interesting and always seem to learn something new from it when I read the latest posts. However, I live in a modest condo and have zero chance of applying any of these theories....lol.

But I do have a question....Just purchased a vintage pair of Ohm C2s, a ported design. I've attached a few pictures from where I listen to give you a relative feel of what I am asking. When I am sitting in the chair between the speakers (where I was taking the pictures from) the bass is not as pronounced and full as when I walk over to the armoire which houses the audio equipment. When I head over there like behind the sofa that you see (so obviously off axis) the bass is noticeably more pronounced and full. Now I can understand the midrange and tweeter output falling off a bit as I am off axis, but why should bass be affected in this way, where it seems to fall off from between the speakers and more pronounced off axis like that ? I thought the low frequencies were pretty much omni-directional and are affected to a far lesser degree by speaker placement. Am I missing something here ?

By the way, ignore the Yamaha CR-620 on the wicker chest as that's not the receiver driving the speakers, I just put it there to take some pictures of it as I put in on EBay for sale : ) The Yamaha CR 2020 in the armoire is the beast that is driving those Ohm C2s.

And all this aside......sometimes I just like to listen to some music that caters to my mood....and who cares where the speakers are sitting as long as I can hear the music and enjoy it : )
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lenjack
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by lenjack » 26 Jun 2019 21:59

Just as important as speaker placement is to bass reproduction, is listener "placement". It's 2 sides of the equation. If you think about it, it makes sense. When selecting a spot for your speakers, before deciding if it's the right spot, you need to listen from your favorite listening spot before you can decide.

C2H3Cln2
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by C2H3Cln2 » 27 Jun 2019 05:43

This is a rendering which shows the virtual direction of the sound when the speakers are set up at either side the chair where I sit. Although the speakers are placed to the left and right of the chair, the sound appears to be directly in front of me. The circle of sound ( in pink ) envelops the listener. It gives the impression of being surrounded by the various sounds of instruments. The bass, can be felt right on the chest and, depending on the recording, instruments appear to float around the room... head turning-unexpected, at times. I don't know how else to illustrate this. It's quite an exquisite illusion..
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Sunwire
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Sunwire » 28 Jun 2019 01:32

Adamo0926 wrote:
26 Jun 2019 21:44

When I am sitting in the chair between the speakers (where I was taking the pictures from) the bass is not as pronounced and full as when I walk over to the armoire which houses the audio equipment. When I head over there like behind the sofa that you see (so obviously off axis) the bass is noticeably more pronounced and full. Now I can understand the midrange and tweeter output falling off a bit as I am off axis, but why should bass be affected in this way, where it seems to fall off from between the speakers and more pronounced off axis like that ? I thought the low frequencies were pretty much omni-directional and are affected to a far lesser degree by speaker placement. Am I missing something here ?

You are experiencing the effects of standing waves in your listening room.
Bass energy at certain frequencies will rise and fall at certain places in the room, depending on the dimensions of the room.
I haven't read this article in detail, but it looks like it probably covers the subject pretty well.
https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoust ... coustics-1

lenjack
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by lenjack » 28 Jun 2019 01:40

Basically, what I said.

Adamo0926
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Adamo0926 » 29 Jun 2019 04:48

Sunwire wrote:
28 Jun 2019 01:32
Adamo0926 wrote:
26 Jun 2019 21:44

When I am sitting in the chair between the speakers (where I was taking the pictures from) the bass is not as pronounced and full as when I walk over to the armoire which houses the audio equipment. When I head over there like behind the sofa that you see (so obviously off axis) the bass is noticeably more pronounced and full. Now I can understand the midrange and tweeter output falling off a bit as I am off axis, but why should bass be affected in this way, where it seems to fall off from between the speakers and more pronounced off axis like that ? I thought the low frequencies were pretty much omni-directional and are affected to a far lesser degree by speaker placement. Am I missing something here ?

You are experiencing the effects of standing waves in your listening room.
Bass energy at certain frequencies will rise and fall at certain places in the room, depending on the dimensions of the room.
I haven't read this article in detail, but it looks like it probably covers the subject pretty well.
https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoust ... coustics-1
Sunwire.....let me start by saying that I love the picture.....the cat on the turntable. I have a Siamese cat so any picture with a cat is top shelf to me.

Second, as of right now I have had several gin and tonics while listening to some nice acoustic guitar pieces on the Ohm C2s, so the bass characteristics are not much of an issue at this moment in musical time.

Third, I clicked on that article about standing waves and started to read it. After the aforementioned libations, I have about as much chance of understanding that article as I do of being elected President. But I will peruse it again at another time and I think you for posting it.

I have thought about taking the C2s off the stands and putting them on the floor to see how that affects things. But my concern is that will cause the bass to get way too "boomy".

Keep chiming in !

Sunwire
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Sunwire » 02 Jul 2019 04:21

The simple version of understanding standing waves:
Every room has standing waves.
The strength of the standing waves and the frequencies at which they occur are determined by the dimensions of the room and the materials used in constructing and furnishing the room.

Move forward and back toward and away from the speakers. Notice how the loudness of the bass changes as you move.
Choose a place to sit where the bass has the best balance with the rest of the musical spectrum.
Notice that if you sit close to a wall, the bass will probably be too loud.

Moving the speakers can also have an effect, for sure.
Closer to any room boundary (floor, wall, or ceiling) will increase bass. Farther away from room boundaries will decrease bass.
Moving the speakers won't have a big effect on the standing waves, however. Those will stay where they are. But they can be affected somewhat by absorbent furniture, carpeting, books, or other sound absorbing objects.

I watched a couple of videos about standing waves, trying to find a good one.
I didn't find one I would recommend strongly, but maybe you can try watching a few and see if it starts to make sense.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +in+a+room

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