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Proper Speaker Placement

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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby contented » 06 Sep 2017 18:37

I have found that just moving ones head from side to side can vastly change the centre stage and sometimes almost flat speaker positioning with very little angulation can sound magical. Further, standing up and moving slightly can give many perceptions of sound enjoyment. All that is scientific is not necessarily ideal in the real world. Turn up the volume and go up stairs and it sounds as if you have live musicians in the house as the waves bounce around the room and up the stairs.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby Old Geezer » 06 Sep 2017 22:39

contented, you are correct. Sometimes we audiophiles get so wrapped up in Tech-Speak we forget we are talking about MUSIC and not electrons! When my ear hears a great sound I do not question how I heard it, but simply listen and enjoy. After words I'll try to figure out how I got such a sound...but the music is the goal!
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby contented » 07 Sep 2017 18:11

Old Geezer wrote:contented, you are correct. Sometimes we audiophiles get so wrapped up in Tech-Speak we forget we are talking about MUSIC and not electrons! When my ear hears a great sound I do not question how I heard it, but simply listen and enjoy. After words I'll try to figure out how I got such a sound...but the music is the goal!


Great to hear someone else agreeing with me at last 'Old Geezer' and probably around my age too. It never ceases to amaze me each day when I struggle down the stairs, put the kettle on, then a record and stand in awe at the surety of the increased brilliance from the day before and with the colder mornings the music sounds even better. Thanks, contented.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby Old Geezer » 08 Sep 2017 15:08

contented, October 4, 1943 right in the middle of WWII is my birthday, so in a couple of weeks I'll be 74. While on board ship, CVA-62 Aircraft Carrier Independence in the Mediterranean in 1963-64 I got heavy into music. A 7" reel-to-reel recorder got me started seriously but I had already begun my record collection before enlisting at 17. After high school and the Navy I got my diploma from Elkins Institute. My college friends did not think much of my "Tech" degree, but I never went more than a few days without work. When they visited my place they all were astonished at my home built (mostly assembled) sound system to include 2' x 4' light-show boxes, Technics amp and turntable, speakers used in a sound studio (sorry, brand escapes me), Philips 7" reel-to-reel and the house/garage wired for sound with ceiling speakers and patio with weather proof boxes. Life is too short to listen to trash!
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby contented » 08 Sep 2017 17:28

Old Geezer wrote:contented, October 4, 1943 right in the middle of WWII is my birthday, so in a couple of weeks I'll be 74. While on board ship, CVA-62 Aircraft Carrier Independence in the Mediterranean in 1963-64 I got heavy into music. A 7" reel-to-reel recorder got me started seriously but I had already begun my record collection before enlisting at 17. After high school and the Navy I got my diploma from Elkins Institute. My college friends did not think much of my "Tech" degree, but I never went more than a few days without work. When they visited my place they all were astonished at my home built (mostly assembled) sound system to include 2' x 4' light-show boxes, Technics amp and turntable, speakers used in a sound studio (sorry, brand escapes me), Philips 7" reel-to-reel and the house/garage wired for sound with ceiling speakers and patio with weather proof boxes. Life is too short to listen to trash!



Hi again old geezer, smashing history and enjoyed reading about your beginnings and what you have achieved; well done indeed.
I am 71 on 7. November and went to tech college while doing an apprenticeship with the top Government Research Station in England which is still going strong. I also, because of low money started with reel to reel tape machines bought on HP.; firstly from radio Luxembourg then BBC1 but not in such an exciting environment as yourself.( My Mum's Brother served on the Ark Royal and her other Brother operated the anti aircraft gun in my Gran's garden, her house was bombed so she lived in the next door for her entirety).
After marriage and four kids in four and a half years I resumed college and got my Engineering Production Full Tech then Carried on to Higher National in Design Engineering. I was 31 then and bought my first Technics outfit in about 1983 having had a Garrard outfit that my Dad bought as a wedding present. I moved around many times and ended up here in France where I did a complete renovation and rebuild of a small house. Soon after, at ten years divorcing my second wife. I lived in America for nine weeks but having made a bad mistake soon had a divorce from the third wife.
Like you I started collecting records of my own in about 1961, the first being an Elvis Pressley, Heart Break Hotel I think it was . Some of my early records have gone with my Dad's demise, thanks to my older brother who took charge without consulting me about my possessions. As a teenager I made an amplifier with valves and a tuner, Large speaker cabinet, test gear, radio etc. Loved doing electronics as a hobby and constructing motors, (when not fishing or cycling), while playing records on Dad's Garrard, with an Armstrong amplifier which he made from a converted wind up gramophone. From about six years of age I played shellac records on my lovely old Gran's wind up machine. A new needle every two or three records.
Now, I am very contented living alone with my three turntables and excellent other players but only enjoy the records mainly. My dog is great company and health has stopped my gallivanting with Girl friends. Soon to have a decent conservatory which will be set up with music equipment and as you say life is too short, so enjoy everyday as if it is the last because one day it will be. Although unable to walk much and with Parkinson's disease, I pay for Help in the house, music is a blessing, all types according to my mood at the time. I find that fiddling with the turntable and speakers great fun and have just loosened the nut on the Rega three changing the music into a new dimension of quality. There is no such enjoyment from putting in a CD with no fiddling, plus it lacks the deep feeling of realness. I play some Instruments which gives an idea of the real sound despite being poor playing except for the Harmonica. Records are second to the kettle in the mornings.
Good hearing from you and I apologise for my long rhetoric. I think to be a writer and bore the pants off of everyone.
All the best to you, contented.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby Old Geezer » 08 Sep 2017 17:59

Short version for contented...After Navy and night school 20 years TV repairman while build Street Rods (Hot Rods)as a hobby. One of my cars won the Dallas car show and was featured on the cover of Performance Cars magazine and a Center-Fold article. Was also in other magazines. A very rich man built a 4 bay shop in my backyard so I could build just for him. Working on cars at work and at home got old so I took a course in gunsmithing. Last decade of work was a police department Armorer for a city and the shop superintendent working on emergency equipment/vehicles. Phone on hip for 10 years 24/7 got old so retired early. Wife is an orphan and I came from the poor Housing Projects, so we never had much money but always stayed ahead of our bills. I write a column for a newspaper, have a shop being built for me to work on MY cars and I have a small shop for gun work...and wine making. One must stay active at our age if possible. My cars always have a nice sound system for those long trips across country. A 1965 Mustang and 1967 Sunbeam Alpine (2 to make one) are my present projects plus a 1911-A1 Colt pistol. When I get tired of those I put on a vinyl of my favorite music and relax! Life is good even after a mild stroke in 2011.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby contented » 09 Sep 2017 18:24

Hi again Old Geezer, at this rate you will be a member soon and lose the junior tag. Great reading about your history, enjoyed it a lot and a great experience I also was into rebuilding bike and car engines and always did everything myself including tune ups for enhanced performance but not possible now, driving is reduced due to the Parkinson's . My discs have worn away and the pressure on the nerve is making leg control so difficult. Have just got rid of the 1200 motorbike to a builder who did a fair bit of work for me.
I was a dance instructor at one time and have made beer and wine all my life since age 19. Now on too many tablets, making alcohol dangerous.
I had a cataract operation on Wednesday and I am gob smacked at the clear vision so have had to take the right lens out of my glasses. It is just unbelievable so hope to have the left eye done at some time in the future.
Found the right speaker minus sound today and traced it to suddenly using the secondary outlets with headphones after years of non use. A drop of WD 40 did the trick on the connections inside the Arcam Amp. but decided to put the AT95E cartridge back on and put the speakers back to the direct connection. The output is stunning proving that the AT95E is definitely the one to beat although the EEI800 was great too but not as crisp or exciting as the AT95E. Have to put drops in my eye now and cook dinner with more records to listen to, then some TV.
I am frustrated not being able to do heavy stuff as in the past such as tree felling and building but I still keep going on painting and tinkering with the equipment plus small amounts of heavy work.
The speakers are 3.2meters apart so give a good spread of sound. I find it hard to move away when the sound is so enthralling. Rained again all day off and on so a good excuse to enjoy the collection.
Power to your elbows, contented.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby Old Geezer » 09 Sep 2017 23:22

Just listened to my old Seals & Crofts "Diamond Girl" QUAD vinyl. YES, there was a 4 channel record and I have several. I remember a comedian on a late-night talk show saying he was their opening act. Unfortunately, he got drunk one night and introduced them as "Arts and Crafts"...which turned into his last night with them. This is not TECH stuff but life is not just music...one must eat sometime! And us Old Geezers must take our meds. Thank God I am very active and still able to work on my cars, guns, wine making and naturally, TURNTABLE! Stay safe vinyl friend. That sounds weird but you understand I am sure.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby contented » 10 Sep 2017 14:20

Old Geezer wrote:Just listened to my old Seals & Crofts "Diamond Girl" QUAD vinyl. YES, there was a 4 channel record and I have several. I remember a comedian on a late-night talk show saying he was their opening act. Unfortunately, he got drunk one night and introduced them as "Arts and Crafts"...which turned into his last night with them. This is not TECH stuff but life is not just music...one must eat sometime! And us Old Geezers must take our meds. Thank God I am very active and still able to work on my cars, guns, wine making and naturally, TURNTABLE! Stay safe vinyl friend. That sounds weird but you understand I am sure.



Hi; my vinyl friend and thanks for the thoughts. Strangely this morning I have changed the fixing of the motor with a better insulation method. It is far better than the old floating method that Rega used early on when I had my Planar Rega 3. No vibration and virtually totally silent, bar the slight whispering of the bearing for the glass platter; totally irrelevant when the stylus goes down.
I know that the EEI800 which I have changed again for the AT95E is a quad stylus but I am not familiar with your record and have never tried them because I have never come across them. Time to look through just in case I might have one or two without realising the fact.
Played Elgar's violin concerto with Nigel Kennedy first off this morning and often wondered why it had such sharp starts and stops to the orchestral interventions. I know now, it is a digitally recorded vinyl. They are just not natural like the analogue tape pressings, however I have a new feeling for Elgar's music and quite enjoyed it. Played lots of music with plenty of various sound effects so have had an interesting morning, especially after doing the modifications again. The new white belts certainly grip well.
I forgot to tell you that cycling as well as the motorbike originally was my passion along with the music and went out everyday doing anything up to and over 100 miles on the cycle and in England did Veterans time trialling, then the Parkinson's caused such tremor I was losing control and nearly ended up under a rather large vehicle so stopped going out. That was hard to take. Seven days in the Neurology hospital and drukqs five times a day, it was magic so went mad and decorated the house and did all the jobs that the shaking had stopped me doing before. Cycling is still out due to a prosthetic knee which within three weeks had to be opened up again with severe infection. I must have done something bad in the past Ho! Ho!.It has never been right since. Enough of the negative.
I found a Bob Newhart recording recently which I bought in the Sixties. Always find it funny to listen to and the recording by Elvis when he gets the giggles and can't stop laughing because of the backing singer, that also starts me off laughing. I enjoy Country music and have a picture album of Willy Nelson amongst many others. Sad that Don Williams has died, I have him playing on the turntable regularly. All the regulars like Waylon Jennings, Tammy Wynette, John Denver, Dolly Parton, etc. I also have a box set of original Blues but unfortunately they are CD's. All the Meat Loaf LP's are great for the speakers and the drums and Guitars are fabulous. My tastes for good speaker output is heavy metal but again Lenny from Motorhead has just died, pity.
Keeping on subject I did a slight turning of the speakers this morning and have a wide listening stage which is useful. Also remade the connections on the speakers which is a worthy exercise.
I uploaded photos' of my equipment the other day but cannot find it on the sight. They say they cannot find it, although thanking me at the time.
It is that time again for medication and a cup of tea so will wind up. Oh! do you watch the old version of Top Gear with Jeremy Clarkson and Co.. They tested a terrific sports Mustang which cornered well and was incredibly fast, beautiful machine. I watched them when in America a few years ago and had set up home.
Sorry to have to say this but Guns worry me, although I know it is the owner and not the gun that is dangerous but of course over here they are banned and I have never been used to them.
Last item today, I still have 5 liters of homemade wine under the stairs which is now eleven years of age. It will either be vinegar for cooking or superb wine and one day I will try some.
Cheers, thanks and all the best to you Old Geezer.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby tonylaibach » 29 Sep 2017 09:40

Hi guys,

I have the misfortune of having a 13' x 13' square listening room (concrete walls and ceiling, wood flooring over concrete floor).

I’m thinking of installing floor to ceiling cabinets with doors (think Ikea) on both side walls thereby transforming the square room into a 11' x 13', or even 10'x 13' rectangular room.
But since the cabinets and their doors are made of MDF boards and not concrete, could this endeavour break the square room curse?
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby Old Geezer » 29 Sep 2017 17:31

A neat trick used back-in-the-day, was to hang rugs/quilts on the walls. IT WORKS in most situations and a buddy even glued carpet on the walls...he was a drummer. Try sound absorbing materials first before doing a total remodel. Just an idea from an Old Geezer.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby JoeE SP9 » 29 Sep 2017 18:07

tonylaibach wrote:Hi guys,

I have the misfortune of having a 13' x 13' square listening room (concrete walls and ceiling, wood flooring over concrete floor).

I’m thinking of installing floor to ceiling cabinets with doors (think Ikea) on both side walls thereby transforming the square room into a 11' x 13', or even 10'x 13' rectangular room.
But since the cabinets and their doors are made of MDF boards and not concrete, could this endeavour break the square room curse?


It certainly wouldn't make it worse. IMO adding cabinets can only Help.
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby Old Geezer » 01 Oct 2017 00:46

JoeE SP9, sometimes we forget reality is not what we are listening to, but a modified version of the original. Sitting in the most expensive seats in a concert hall one "may" hear the complete orchestra...but probably not! Like it or not, life is not perfect. What I like to do is make things as best they can be in the space available...then pretend I have the $500.00 seats...which is not far from the truth, since we just bought new furniture that was way more expensive than I expected. Like I said, life is not perfect, but us vinyl geeks try our best!
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby AsOriginallyRecorded » 01 Oct 2017 01:24

:-k Given that my stereo listening space is, by necessity, relegated to one end of my workshop, I have had to make some compromises on placement and resultant sound delivery of my systems. If I were to make any recommendations to anyone concerning placements they would be a) try to achieve a symmetry in the placement of the speakers (same height, distance from adjacent elements such as cabinets, walls, and other large solid features of the room...b) try to position your prime listening system approximately 8 feet from the speaker (generally happens to be the range at which sound stage and the front edge of the sweet spot envelope occurs, and...c) heed the advice to try to have the mid-range of your speakers very close to where your ear height will be while listening. Quite generalized I admit, but for average range of listening spaces most people have to deal with, tends to produce an acceptable satisfying level of listening pleasure. For those with more forgiving budgets and custom built spaces, or a need for some form of perfection in pursuit of the perfect note...knock yourself out! 8)
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Postby tonylaibach » 03 Oct 2017 04:58

Hi guys, thx for all your input. I posted the same question to a Brian at Cardas Audio and he came back saying "Adding cabinets will do very little in changing the overall acoustic dimensions of the room. Best to find a speaker that can fit into your acoustic space."

Curious but hard to ignore.

But since I'll be needing those cabinets anyway, I'm just going to go ahead and set them up and see what happens.

Agree with JoeE and it wouldn't make it worse.
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