Proper Speaker Placement

amplifiers, receivers and loudspeakers
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bra10n
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by bra10n » 07 Apr 2018 22:55

Guesstimator wrote:... however i am still concerned in the dip in the lower range that has not been affected by any speaker positioning...
These bass drivers are rear mounted using a single bolt correct? I'd start there...

Sunwire
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Sunwire » 08 Apr 2018 00:06


Guesstimator
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Guesstimator » 08 Apr 2018 08:55

Well, I have been looking at some other speakers , problem isi really need to try them in my room now that I know what I'm looking for but obviously no shop has yet agreed to just letting me take a pair of speakers home. On the used market I may have found a couple of speakers to audition , but don't know much about them : jbl l 50, Polk sda 1, ar 2 ax.

Regarding driver mounting on the am bx6 I'm not sure what you mean as I haven't taken them apart ...especially as i mighg be selling them if I can audition a speaker that solves the issue.

scootersage
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by scootersage » 10 Apr 2018 13:04

I use 4 s109 JBL's really dosn't matter where I am in the room all 4 face me. Also use a Paradigm dps 3200 that is next to one speaker.

mgl99
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by mgl99 » 23 Apr 2018 08:04

I've read through these speaker placement formulas and there's one factor that seems to have been omitted from all of them, and that is the wife factor. I believe that these formulas and rules are excellent guidance provided they apply only to a separate man cave location. As soon as you introduce the wife factor into it, I assure you it will never come out correctly IMO.

Nigel Gomez
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Nigel Gomez » 07 Jun 2018 23:16

mgl99 wrote:I've read through these speaker placement formulas and there's one factor that seems to have been omitted from all of them, and that is the wife factor. I believe that these formulas and rules are excellent guidance provided they apply only to a separate man cave location. As soon as you introduce the wife factor into it, I assure you it will never come out correctly IMO.
Only if you are whipped.

whitenoise
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by whitenoise » 14 Jun 2018 15:51

Nigel Gomez wrote:
mgl99 wrote:I've read through these speaker placement formulas and there's one factor that seems to have been omitted from all of them, and that is the wife factor. I believe that these formulas and rules are excellent guidance provided they apply only to a separate man cave location. As soon as you introduce the wife factor into it, I assure you it will never come out correctly IMO.
Only if you are whipped.

Or you whip good. I think its best to get these things clear from around day 2 of any such relationship, one day you may actually have to live with your chosen one, which may be the first, fourth but always (nearly anyway) the last.

"you know I love music, always have, and nothing would give me more pleasure than to wrap up in a blanket on the settee and lose ourselves in it and each other ...knowing that you too are a massive music fan, you said that yesterday and I have still managed not to forget it the day after ....but to have the best possible time both listening and those moments that we are consumed by each other the speakers have to be.placed where they can work best with the environment in which they are placed, this often is best achieved by placing them in the most impractical place you could wish to find, they are often big, or on metal stands which gives even the smaller ones the feeling of being bigger ...but this is the way it has to be, and will be, you do understand don't you ?"

whitenoise
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by whitenoise » 14 Jun 2018 16:39

keranene wrote:Thanks for the information. So actually my idea of putting something behind my speakers would probably make things worse since they are rear ported. Foam would actually decrease the "breathing room" for these. I'm going through my second young adulthood at age 56 and learning a lot on this site.

If you have no choice other than having them close to the rear wall then placing foam, straws a sock in the port will tame any boomy bass you may experience...

Boltman92124
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Boltman92124 » 18 Jun 2018 16:52

I spent most of yesterday trying out new speaker placement with my Mirage M7si's. If any of you know these, they are difficult :evil: . Plus they weigh 80lbs each.

At any rate, it's a trade off of-
1.) Wide spread(8ft) with full toe in- Creates the best soundstage and correct imaging. OR!!
2.) Smaller spread (6ft) and no toe in.- Creates a sharper, more forward soundstage/midrange and better clarity left to right.

I have rear facing ports as well, along with an in phase rear facing full range driver(bi-polar as opposed to dipole). They are tricky for sure. I go through a process of measuring distance to the rear wall and toe in as well (visually). If I think I'm done for awhile, I slap down some duct tape markers on the floor around the inside corner. Plus I leave the older markers so I can compare different positions quickly.

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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by MonkeyBoy » 06 Jul 2018 04:27

Boltman92124 wrote:I spent most of yesterday trying out new speaker placement with my Mirage M7si's. If any of you know these, they are difficult :evil: . Plus they weigh 80lbs each.

At any rate, it's a trade off of-
1.) Wide spread(8ft) with full toe in- Creates the best soundstage and correct imaging. OR!!
2.) Smaller spread (6ft) and no toe in.- Creates a sharper, more forward soundstage/midrange and better clarity left to right.

I have rear facing ports as well, along with an in phase rear facing full range driver(bi-polar as opposed to dipole). They are tricky for sure. I go through a process of measuring distance to the rear wall and toe in as well (visually). If I think I'm done for awhile, I slap down some duct tape markers on the floor around the inside corner. Plus I leave the older markers so I can compare different positions quickly.
What are the actual dimensions of your listening room?

Boltman92124
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Boltman92124 » 06 Jul 2018 20:09

MonkeyBoy wrote:
Boltman92124 wrote:I spent most of yesterday trying out new speaker placement with my Mirage M7si's. If any of you know these, they are difficult :evil: . Plus they weigh 80lbs each.

At any rate, it's a trade off of-
1.) Wide spread(8ft) with full toe in- Creates the best soundstage and correct imaging. OR!!
2.) Smaller spread (6ft) and no toe in.- Creates a sharper, more forward soundstage/midrange and better clarity left to right.

I have rear facing ports as well, along with an in phase rear facing full range driver(bi-polar as opposed to dipole). They are tricky for sure. I go through a process of measuring distance to the rear wall and toe in as well (visually). If I think I'm done for awhile, I slap down some duct tape markers on the floor around the inside corner. Plus I leave the older markers so I can compare different positions quickly.
What are the actual dimensions of your listening room?
16" x 16' but a hallway happens on the speaker side. Listening position is against opposite wall/couch. Speakers about 2 feet out from rear wall, so listening distance probably about 12 feet or so.

MonkeyBoy
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by MonkeyBoy » 10 Jul 2018 22:54

Boltman92124 wrote:
MonkeyBoy wrote:
Boltman92124 wrote:I spent most of yesterday trying out new speaker placement with my Mirage M7si's. If any of you know these, they are difficult :evil: . Plus they weigh 80lbs each.

At any rate, it's a trade off of-
1.) Wide spread(8ft) with full toe in- Creates the best soundstage and correct imaging. OR!!
2.) Smaller spread (6ft) and no toe in.- Creates a sharper, more forward soundstage/midrange and better clarity left to right.

I have rear facing ports as well, along with an in phase rear facing full range driver(bi-polar as opposed to dipole). They are tricky for sure. I go through a process of measuring distance to the rear wall and toe in as well (visually). If I think I'm done for awhile, I slap down some duct tape markers on the floor around the inside corner. Plus I leave the older markers so I can compare different positions quickly.
What are the actual dimensions of your listening room?
16" x 16' but a hallway happens on the speaker side. Listening position is against opposite wall/couch. Speakers about 2 feet out from rear wall, so listening distance probably about 12 feet or so.
Being a square room puts you at a disadvantage right from the start. How are things like tonal balance? Is the bass tight or is it boomy?

IndigoRock2001
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by IndigoRock2001 » 26 Jul 2018 16:31

I found all of this fascinating even though my physical situation will never allow me to take advantage of it. I was wondering though, how many sound engineers on the recording side take into consideration that the listener will have such a setup? I mean I listen to a lot of Rock and I suspect that the mixing of disperate trax is done at the whim of the mixer to emphasize the sound field he has in his mind, rather than a real stereo sound stage. And in this case how does such a recording sound in a stereo field where such measures as the above have been taken?
indi

JoeE SP9
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by JoeE SP9 » 26 Jul 2018 19:03

Multitracked studio recordings do not produce any sort of live sounding soundstage because there isn't one to reproduce. In their favor is that they usually have pinpoint left to right imaging. To my ears and system that imaging produces a flat 2D sound field. Consequently, on playback the sense of depth and the aural impression of musicians playing together in a well defined space is not there. This is because you can't reproduce what was never there.

Even a dedicated treated room and the best speaker setup can't give you what was never there. I long ago stopped trying to hear a soundstage on multitracked studio recordings. The only thing one can do is accept them for what they are. That is, a studio recording with no soundstage and great imaging.

You can have imaging with no soundstage but you can't have a soundstage with no imaging.

I feel the same way about claims of headphones producing a soundstage. If you hear a soundstage with headphones (binaural recordings excepted) you and I hear and define a soundstage so completely different we might as well be living in different realities.

FWIW: A soundstage is the aural impression of musicians performing in a real space "over there" where your speakers used to be.

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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by davidpr » 30 Jul 2018 12:45

I have spent hours and hours trying to get the placement correct. I have used Cardas, golden triangle et al but I have setteled on the 1/3rd set up, i.e. placing the speakers a 1/3 of the way into the room and my seat being a 1/3 in from the wall behind.

This is approximate as my room is close to being square unfortunately.

My speakers are about 50 cm's in from the side walls and toed in by about 20/25 degrees.

I have had this for a few months now and all sounds good to me, the toe in helped a lot.

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