Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

amplifiers, receivers and loudspeakers
billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 31 Jan 2019 19:18

Spinner45 wrote:
31 Jan 2019 18:00
I don't understand the long delay with this process.
Those woofers could have been shipped to Bill at Millersound, re-coned, and back in your hands in perfect condition by now.
No inpatient customers calling my establishment, which I imagine you have encountered a time or two :wink: But seriously, a little bit of illness, alot of night shift, and a moderate amount of trepidation, intimidation with a first restore, and last but not least, a bit of laziness. The silicone is drying then I get to soldering. I'm curious, how much for the re-coning? I just might stumble across some used cabinets someday-or decide to pop em in my current ones.
Last edited by billsea on 31 Jan 2019 19:26, edited 1 time in total.

billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 31 Jan 2019 19:25

Here's the rheostat. I should have posted a before pic. It was pretty bronze colored with a little green crud on top. My only concern: the whole plate was silver at one point but with brasso and some 600 grit this tarnish seems to have reappeared. Have I gotten through a coating down into non-conductive territory?
Attachments
IMG_2415.JPG
(104.06 KiB) Downloaded 38 times

Spinner45
long player
long player
Posts: 2995
Joined: 01 Mar 2017 17:21

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by Spinner45 » 31 Jan 2019 22:51

billsea wrote:
31 Jan 2019 19:18
Spinner45 wrote:
31 Jan 2019 18:00
I don't understand the long delay with this process.
Those woofers could have been shipped to Bill at Millersound, re-coned, and back in your hands in perfect condition by now.
No inpatient customers calling my establishment, which I imagine you have encountered a time or two :wink: But seriously, a little bit of illness, alot of night shift, and a moderate amount of trepidation, intimidation with a first restore, and last but not least, a bit of laziness. The silicone is drying then I get to soldering. I'm curious, how much for the re-coning? I just might stumble across some used cabinets someday-or decide to pop em in my current ones.
I've dealt with Bill before, and as far as I can remember, his prices are very reasonable, I just can't remember since it was not important in servicing my customer's speakers.
The man is a professional at his work, and he describes it as an "art".
Give him a call and he'll enlighten you.

billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 31 Jan 2019 23:04

Ok, will do. I guess the 'don't call unless yer serious' scared me off at one point. But that was weeks ago.

phivates
member
member
Posts: 148
Joined: 28 Apr 2011 22:21
Location: Willamette Valley Oregon

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by phivates » 01 Feb 2019 01:05

Gee Spinner how is Bill's pace a problem for you? He now has replacement AR4x woofers and a tweeter from me and advice on how to spend more for perfection from you...win win!

jdjohn
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 2577
Joined: 20 Sep 2015 04:14
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by jdjohn » 01 Feb 2019 01:50

billsea wrote:
31 Jan 2019 19:25
Here's the rheostat. I should have posted a before pic. It was pretty bronze colored with a little green crud on top. My only concern: the whole plate was silver at one point but with brasso and some 600 grit this tarnish seems to have reappeared. Have I gotten through a coating down into non-conductive territory?
Maybe 'less' conductive, but not 'non-conductive'. If you find yourself enjoying the sound with the rheostat at max, you should consider hot-wiring around the level adjuster.

billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 01 Feb 2019 02:21

Interesting; I have also seen talk of using a 'silver pen' to remedy this situ. Depending on the room, the 'high' setting can be too much, even for my trebley indie rock tastes. Have you heard of the pen thing?

billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 01 Feb 2019 02:25

And speaking of perfection... just about to smooth the sealant and see how she sounds...
Attachments
IMG_2425.JPG
Back on the fateful kitchen table... where it all fell thru (the cone)
(159.65 KiB) Downloaded 29 times

billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 01 Feb 2019 02:25

I use the word perfection liberally...

billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 01 Feb 2019 02:36

Sealed the cabinet with the Mortite, adding another ribbon to the exterior of the basket as well as a wad to the holes for the screws. Even put a ribbon on the level adjuster on back. Restuffed using the original fiberglass. I numbered the bags with a description of the placement on each which worked well. I went with the Carli cap for now. I got better with the soldering as it went along; I would recommend practicing on some odd wires if one is inexperienced with soldering as I was/am.

billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 01 Feb 2019 03:14

Well, my soldering seems to hold up. The tweeter isn't cutting out. I seem to hear more detail in the cymbals. Granted my 1st test was Beatle's Revolver in mono on CD. My woofer doesn't have that delayed spring back when I press on the cone. I'm wondering if I can do a better job sealing it up? I will post a couple pics of gaps in my cabinet-one seems to be from glue coming out-is this a source of air leak? Maybe my seal otherwise is better and I just BLEW the old glue out!!...ok, myb wishful thinking? I am tentatively pleased howeva...
Attachments
IMG_2429.JPG
This gap has always been there
(151.72 KiB) Downloaded 30 times
IMG_2428.JPG
This stuff was wobbly and just crumbled out
(209.38 KiB) Downloaded 28 times

billsea
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Oct 2018 07:09
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by billsea » 01 Feb 2019 03:25

On a second listen, this time Spoon's 'Gimme Fiction' (beatle's reference) :wink: I have to say over all the sound is better than before I opened the cabinet up and tore into it. There is more fine definition, grace notes, etc in the sound with these woofers. I spose that is the detail of the tweaked woofer? The drums are nice and punchy on this record and seem fairly crisp. I need to get my cartridge aligned and play some records. I look forward to everyone's interpretation of my report. I want to thank ALL of you for your suggestions and support. I want to be sure to get everything I can out of these little pawn shop diamonds in the rough! 8)

phivates
member
member
Posts: 148
Joined: 28 Apr 2011 22:21
Location: Willamette Valley Oregon

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by phivates » 01 Feb 2019 15:18

My belief, I have no proof, is that the damping I applied to the speaker frame cleans up the upper midrange, where the stamped steel basket wants to ring, and the single light coat of waterborne spar varnish on the cone smooths everything a little. Not perfect though. I don't think the spring-back is as important on the 4x as it is on the big boys; JMO.

Spinner45
long player
long player
Posts: 2995
Joined: 01 Mar 2017 17:21

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by Spinner45 » 01 Feb 2019 17:02

phivates wrote:
01 Feb 2019 15:18
My belief, I have no proof, is that the damping I applied to the speaker frame cleans up the upper midrange, where the stamped steel basket wants to ring, and the single light coat of waterborne spar varnish on the cone smooths everything a little. Not perfect though. I don't think the spring-back is as important on the 4x as it is on the big boys; JMO.
Ah, but there's where you're wrong.
All Air-suspension systems rely on the sealed-in air within the box for their bass, and having a small leak compromises that, drastically reducing bass output.
Leaks affect the tuning, the resonance, and makes bass thinner-sounding, as well as allowing increased woofer cone excursions resulting in damage.
All leaks need to be checked and repaired, so when pushing down on the woofer, it will slowly return to center.

phivates
member
member
Posts: 148
Joined: 28 Apr 2011 22:21
Location: Willamette Valley Oregon

Re: Newbie: When to refurbish AR 4x speakers

Post by phivates » 01 Feb 2019 20:24

Of course I'm wrong. Thank you. I would rather have the proper spring back but when the driver has a porous dust cap there's a small leak possible right there. Also there may be a leak around the tweeter if he has the thin foam ring that mine have. Again: No perfection in my world, just attainable good as I can manage. Bye now.