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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 14 Nov 2018 10:10
by Sterling1
hobie1dog wrote:
14 Nov 2018 06:04
JBL always used 63hz in their B380 and B460 subs.
That's the recommended crossover. With my preamp's processor I can not tune to 63 so it's set at 60. This works great with my JBL L100t3 mains.

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 14 Nov 2018 13:01
by Sterling1
hobie1dog wrote:
14 Nov 2018 06:04
JBL always used 63hz in their B380 and B460 subs.
JBL recommended 63Hz for those subs, which was possible with their optional BX-63 crossover. I've set my crossover point from my Sony TA-E9000ES pre/pro, which is limited to 10Hz increments; thus, it is set at 60Hz, which is an appropriate match to my JBL L100t3 mains.

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 23 Nov 2018 03:56
by JDJX
Here's Paul from "PS Audio" about setting a sub's cross over.


Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 23 Nov 2018 10:55
by Sterling1
It seems the challenge is getting the sub output right for music and right for movies too. Also, listening at an 80db SPL will require less bass output for "just right' than when listening to music or movies at a 40db SPL, which will require more bass output for noticeable bass. In other words, some adjustment to bass output may be necessary for satisfaction no matter what. One size does not fit all.

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 23 Nov 2018 14:47
by JDJX
What you want to do is set things for your average listening level .

Given that the human ear is less sensitive to the highs and lows at low volume levels you just have to increase the bass and treble to your liking at any given low volume level.

This is what the 'loudness button" was for on vintage receivers....... it just increased highs and lows .
Lacking a loudness button, you can just use your preamp's bass and treble controls which is the best way to do it anyway. :)

BTW, all bets are off with many modern movies as they often have an artificial sound where the lows are exaggerated.

To no one is particular..... tone controls are there for a good reason......use them. :)

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 24 Nov 2018 23:19
by theclosetguy
80hz is considered the frequency when humans hearing starts to hear sounds less localized. So if you tuck your sub away in a hidden area, the lower frequencies will be heard and felt but with less of a chance your brain will localize where the sound is coming from. The idea of a powered sub is to help produce the lower region and take the stress off your main system. You really never want to rely on a sub to produce all or your lower octaves. Bass slam, which is felt in your chest, is usually between 60hz and 160hz. and requires a front firing system. It's all about Sound Pressure. The louder the sound, the more slam you feel. Sub 50hz is what is felt through out the body as well as causing the rumble in the room.
I had this discussion with a recording engineer friend when he was auditioning my system. And yes, the louder the music was played, the more chest slam was felt. Since my system does reach 40hz well, It's close enough for me.
Mike M

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 27 Nov 2018 15:05
by JDJX
Bass Slam?
How loud do you play your LPs?

Not everyone wants to, or is able to play LPs / music so loud that it rattles their windows and slams their chest.. LOL

BTW, I'm a former (rock) bass player so, I have nothing against bass but, it has to be balanced and not overpowering. Bass is just a part of the musical spectrum... and it goes below 40h hz :)

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 27 Nov 2018 18:11
by Sterling1
JDJX wrote:
27 Nov 2018 15:05
Bass Slam?
How loud do you play your LPs?

Not everyone wants to, or is able to play LPs / music so loud that it rattles their windows and slams their chest.. LOL

BTW, I'm a former (rock) bass player so, I have nothing against bass but, it has to be balanced and not overpowering. Bass is just a part of the musical spectrum... and it goes below 40h hz :)
Yes, too much bass is like too much icing on a cake. Eat it all and get sick, cake or bass.

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 27 Nov 2018 20:57
by JDJX
BTW...Why it is "bass" and not " base"..... :)

https://www.quora.com/Why-in-sound-syst ... -like-base

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 28 Nov 2018 18:04
by JDJX
FWIW...

Back in the '70s a major popular speaker brand of the day ( I forgot which one) marketed a speaker with adjustable frequency balance via a selector switch.
Each setting was labeled for a particular genre of music..rock, classical, etc...

When the legendary "Hursh Houck" audio labs reviewed it in "Stereo Review" magazine... they related that each selection did seem to make a particular (labeled) genre sound a bit better but, made the others genres sound a bit worse .

Examples....
A bit more bass might make jazz instrumentals seem to sound a bit better but, the same amount of bass might make classical music sound a bit "tubby" ... as it used to be called .
What may make cymbals sparkle a bit more can make female vocals sound a bit harsh.

So, unless you just listen to one genre exclusively, careful frequency balance of a system is prudent... including the adjustment of a sub. :)

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 04 Dec 2018 00:24
by theclosetguy
JDJX
I don't have to play my records that loud to feel the bass on my chest. The system produces the energy through a front firing, ported long throw 10" woofer. 90db is the level where it can be felt in my listening space. The Primaluna's are not capable of producing window rattling bass and I don't try to.
Sub-woofers are for home theater systems where you need 1000 watts of power to rattle the windows, walls and floors.
A Loudspeaker system capable of getting down to 30hz will fill your listen area with nice bass. Most Tape mastering decks can only go to 30hz, maybe 25hz if you get lucky.
Mike M

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 05 Dec 2018 11:26
by JDJX
theclosetguy wrote:
04 Dec 2018 00:24
JDJX
I don't have to play my records that loud to feel the bass on my chest. The system produces the energy through a front firing, ported long throw 10" woofer. 90db is the level where it can be felt in my listening space. The Primaluna's are not capable of producing window rattling bass and I don't try to.
Sub-woofers are for home theater systems where you need 1000 watts of power to rattle the windows, walls and floors.
A Loudspeaker system capable of getting down to 30hz will fill your listen area with nice bass. Most Tape mastering decks can only go to 30hz, maybe 25hz if you get lucky.
Mike M


If you want to rattle your windows with a bass heavy home theater system ..... fine.
However, that has nothing to do with quality music audio where the goal is a flat response.. and that includes the lower frequencies.

Besides.......
" Chronic hearing loss can also be caused by less loud sounds (about 90 dB and above) if someone is regularly exposed to them. "

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 05 Dec 2018 11:47
by Sterling1
I don't understand much of what I've read in this thread, that's to say, isn't this just a matter of adjusting bass to taste? So, it would appear helpful to post about how adjustment to taste is done, rather than posting how it ought to be. After all, genre, room size, volume level, and more will influence what sort of bass extension is most pleasing. For me pleasure is realized using a passive sub which is managed by 1. my pre/pro, 2. my multi-channel analog preamp, and 3. my OPPO-205. There's a how-to-do-it dialog for each of these means to bass pleasure from stereo music, multi-channel SACD, and movies. At any rate, seems the OP would just be smart to experiment with whatever device is managing the subwoofer's output level and crossover relationship with main and surround speakers.

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 06 Dec 2018 17:00
by JDJX
What do you want.... accurate music reproduction..... or a heavy/ artificial bass that destroys accurate music because it might suit your taste?

Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Posted: 06 Dec 2018 17:21
by dysmike
JDJX wrote:
06 Dec 2018 17:00
What do you want.... accurate music reproduction..... or a heavy/ artificial bass that destroys accurate music because it might suit your taste?
That'd be simple! Then you add dual-use (such as bass reproduction for home theatre usage), and things.. start to get.. complicated.