Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

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Sterling1
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by Sterling1 » 06 Dec 2018 20:31

JDJX wrote:
06 Dec 2018 18:00
What do you want.... accurate music reproduction..... or a heavy/ artificial bass that destroys accurate music because it might suit your taste?
I want it all, the whole enchilada. And with my magnificent system I can get it all, bass that’s just right for any genre of music I’m listening to, or movies.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by Sterling1 » 07 Dec 2018 12:55

JDJX wrote:
06 Dec 2018 18:00
What do you want.... accurate music reproduction..... or a heavy/ artificial bass that destroys accurate music because it might suit your taste?
One more thought, another thing I want is abiltiy to adjust sub to my room's accustics, as well as adjust to personal preference, as I earleir posted. Interestingly enough, "accurate music reproduction" in my opinion is ellusive, given the consumer's chain of electronics to play audio media is different than the chain of electronics used to record music to media and none of us have the pleasure to confirm our adjustments to our gear is delivering the outcome the media producer had in mind, without the producer's visit to the consumer's home to listen to the consumer's system. In other words, why be OCD, after all, there are no rules, it's just what you think sounds right, so, adjust it to sound right to your ears. If in your opinion heavy/artificial bass destroys OK, that's your version of audio nirvana; but, it's not mine. The bottom-line here is this, folks just need to know how to adjust their sub to get what they seek from it.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by JDJX » 07 Dec 2018 14:45

OK... would someone please tell me why they would want an artificial heavy bass for movies where even closing a car door sounds like you are slamming a vault door in fort knox?
Movie theaters now argument the bass strictly for a dramatic effect.
Are people just tying to recreate the movie theater experience? If so why not just increase the bass with your tone control.... or even with an EQ if you have one.

There was a time when theaters and movies in general did not augment the bass but, then then the "THX sound " was marketed and promoted by George Liucas to insure an augmented bass for movies ... and some people started to use the bass heavy THX sound for music.

BTW, having lived through it, the want to augment the bass really started with the disco era when disco fans wanted more and more bass to drive the never ending disco beat that they loved.
If a system did not have a heavy bass, disco fans did not want it.

The want for artificiality augmented bass by some has generally been with us ever since.

BTW, I have said it before but, it's worth repeating...
Tone controls are included in most every pre amp section for a reason .
Why some refuse to use them is beyond my understanding.
Again, If someone wants more bass for a movie, just turn up the bass with your bass control (temporarily) .. without screwing up the sound for music .

If someone thinks a natural sound is no good for movies , why do they then think that a heavy , augmented bass movie sound is also good for music? :)

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by Sterling1 » 07 Dec 2018 16:00

JDJX wrote:
07 Dec 2018 14:45
OK... would someone please tell me why they would want an artificial heavy bass for movies where even closing a car door sounds like you are slamming a vault door in fort knox?
Movie theaters now argument the bass strictly for a dramatic effect.
Are people just tying to recreate the movie theater experience? If so why not just increase the bass with your tone control.... or even with an EQ if you have one.

There was a time when theaters and movies in general did not augment the bass but, then then the "THX sound " was marketed and promoted by George Liucas to insure an augmented bass for movies ... and some people started to use the bass heavy THX sound for music.

BTW, having lived through it, the want to augment the bass really started with the disco era when disco fans wanted more and more bass to drive the never ending disco beat that they loved.
If a system did not have a heavy bass, disco fans did not want it.

The want for artificiality augmented bass by some has generally been with us ever since.

BTW, I have said it before but, it's worth repeating...
Tone controls are included in most every pre amp section for a reason .
Why some refuse to use them is beyond my understanding.
Again, If someone wants more bass for a movie, just turn up the bass with your bass control (temporarily) .. without screwing up the sound for music .

If someone thinks a natural sound is no good for movies , why do they then think that a heavy , augmented bass movie sound is also good for music? :)
JDJX, I don't have a clue why folks do what they do. I don't like exaggerated bass for music or movies; but, of course, what is or is not exaggerated is always questionalble. I can tell you some dance music seems to make me want to shuffle dance when the bass is turned up a bit. At any rate, I've enjoyed this conversation. Your take on it is interesting.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by noisefreq » 07 Dec 2018 16:38

IndigoRock2001 wrote:
13 Jul 2018 03:00
I just got a yamaha yst-sw215 subwoofer. I have this going strong (a little too strong) on my Yamaha Rx-v675 amp which is a surround home theater system. I noticed the option to set the subwoof for "bass crossover" at 40HZ 80hz 90hz 100hz 110hz 120hz or 160hz. I don't know where to find this out. I currently have it set at 60hz simply because this sounded familiar to me. Can anyone tell me? Much appreciated.
indi
I use a surround 5.1 Onkyo receiver.
I had the amplifier crossover for the Sub Output set at 80Hz (adjustable at 80, 100 and 120Hz for the sub out).
So, I'm guessing that my main speakers (JBL TLX series) are getting everything from 80Hz and up and the powered sub is getting everything 80Hz and below(?).
So I crossed over the adjustable sub to 80Hz on my Velodyne 10" powered sub
and the volume level to where it wasn't p*****g off the family, figuring, this way I wouldn't have a hole in the low frequencies around that 80Hz mark. It sounded ok.

Then, recently I bought a pair of EPI 200c speakers and they are a much different animal when compared to the JBL's.
IMG_20181207_083732.jpg
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They have a 10" passive radiator in conjunction with a 8" woofer.
The bass was not as punchy and so I started turning up the sub volume.
Then I realized the sound field was all messed up.
Bass was smeared and boomy, mids were sucked out.

So then I ran the left and right speaker main cables from the amplifier to the speaker inputs on the powered sub
IMG_20181207_083804.jpg
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and then out to the EPI's.
This way I can control where the best point to crossover the EPI's relative to the powered sub.
IMG_20181207_083942.jpg
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Now the lows are crossed over around 65Hz and I can turn up the sub volume to better match the volume of the main speakers.

Now I'm thinking about getting another Velodyne so I will have stereo subs.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by dysmike » 07 Dec 2018 16:44

Sterling1 wrote:
07 Dec 2018 16:00
JDJX, I don't have a clue why folks do what they do. I don't like exaggerated bass for music or movies; but, of course, what is or is not exaggerated is always questionalble. I can tell you some dance music seems to make me want to shuffle dance when the bass is turned up a bit. At any rate, I've enjoyed this conversation. Your take on it is interesting.
I'm not sure why, but it took me a while (in both locations I've used this system in) to dial-in my sub crossover and volume to get it where it was enjoyable for both music and movies. I suspect this is due to using a pre-out for the sub, rather than running my speakers through the subs crossover as noisefreq has done above.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by Sterling1 » 07 Dec 2018 16:58

noisefreq wrote:
07 Dec 2018 16:38
IndigoRock2001 wrote:
13 Jul 2018 03:00
I just got a yamaha yst-sw215 subwoofer. I have this going strong (a little too strong) on my Yamaha Rx-v675 amp which is a surround home theater system. I noticed the option to set the subwoof for "bass crossover" at 40HZ 80hz 90hz 100hz 110hz 120hz or 160hz. I don't know where to find this out. I currently have it set at 60hz simply because this sounded familiar to me. Can anyone tell me? Much appreciated.
indi
I use a surround 5.1 Onkyo receiver.
I had the amplifier crossover for the Sub Output set at 80Hz (adjustable at 80, 100 and 120Hz for the sub out).
So, I'm guessing that my main speakers (JBL TLX series) are getting everything from 80Hz and up and the powered sub is getting everything 80Hz and below(?).
So I crossed over the adjustable sub to 80Hz on my Velodyne 10" powered sub
and the volume level to where it wasn't p*****g off the family, figuring, this way I wouldn't have a hole in the low frequencies around that 80Hz mark. It sounded ok.

Then, recently I bought a pair of EPI 200c speakers and they are a much different animal when compared to the JBL's.
IMG_20181207_083732.jpg
They have a 10" passive radiator in conjunction with a 8" woofer.
The bass was not as punchy and so I started turning up the sub volume.
Then I realized the sound field was all messed up.
Bass was smeared and boomy, mids were sucked out.

So then I ran the left and right speaker main cables from the amplifier to the speaker inputs on the powered subIMG_20181207_083804.jpg and then out to the EPI's.
This way I can control where the best point to crossover the EPI's relative to the powered sub.IMG_20181207_083942.jpg
Now the lows are crossed over around 65Hz and I can turn up the sub volume to better match the volume of the main speakers.

Now I'm thinking about getting another Velodyne so I will have stereo subs.
You are now operating your active sub in the manner which will get you desired results. I guess you are just kidding about stereo subs, since low frequencies are non-directional.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by JDJX » 07 Dec 2018 17:02

JDJX, I don't have a clue why folks do what they do. I don't like exaggerated bass for music or movies; but, of course, what is or is not exaggerated is always questionable........
If I may .. for example..... o bass guitar note run from highest to lowest note should go..... "boom, boom, boom, boom.....
It should not go.......boom, boom, boom, BOOM" with lowest note much louder the the others. which some seem to like for whatever reason(s).
The list goes on but you get the idea...:)

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by Sterling1 » 07 Dec 2018 17:16

dysmike wrote:
07 Dec 2018 16:44
Sterling1 wrote:
07 Dec 2018 16:00
JDJX, I don't have a clue why folks do what they do. I don't like exaggerated bass for music or movies; but, of course, what is or is not exaggerated is always questionalble. I can tell you some dance music seems to make me want to shuffle dance when the bass is turned up a bit. At any rate, I've enjoyed this conversation. Your take on it is interesting.
I'm not sure why, but it took me a while (in both locations I've used this system in) to dial-in my sub crossover and volume to get it where it was enjoyable for both music and movies. I suspect this is due to using a pre-out for the sub, rather than running my speakers through the subs crossover as noisefreq has done above.
Pre-out to sub from an AVR or pre/pro that allows setting the sub crossover to mains relationship will easily manage bass, when, either through DSP or attenuator, the sub's volume can be conveniently adjusted. In my case, stereo media bass management is handled by a DSP preamplifier, movie bass management is handled by an analog multi-channel preamplifier, and multi-channel music bass management is handled by my OPPO UDP-205. So, I only need to adjust my sub's power amp gain when listening to music or movies at a relatively low or high listening level, no matter what bass management system is engaged.
Last edited by Sterling1 on 07 Dec 2018 17:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by JDJX » 07 Dec 2018 17:17

noisefreq wrote:......So then I ran the left and right speaker main cables from the amplifier to the speaker inputs on the powered sub
Contrary to some popular opinions, using an amp's speaker outputs to connect to a powered sub is the beat way to connect it. .
The full frequency spectrum (unchanged) is then passed onto your main speakers.
This is how I got my sub connected. :)

It's a bit involved say why here but, the worst way is to use an amp's dedicated "sub" output.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by Sterling1 » 07 Dec 2018 17:26

JDJX wrote:
07 Dec 2018 17:17
noisefreq wrote:......So then I ran the left and right speaker main cables from the amplifier to the speaker inputs on the powered sub
Contrary to some popular opinions, using an amp's speaker outputs to connect to a powered sub is the beat way to connect it. .
The full frequency spectrum (unchanged) is then passed onto your main speakers.
This is how I got my sub connected. :)

It's a bit involved say why here but, the worst way is to use an amp's dedicated "sub" output.
"It's a bit involved say why here but, the worst way is to use an amp's dedicated "sub" output." Unless the sub is passive, then it's the right way, best way, or only way.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by JDJX » 07 Dec 2018 19:58

Well, a powered sub is the only kind worth having ..... unless you only have a crosley with computer speakers.....etc...... LOL

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by Sterling1 » 07 Dec 2018 20:26

JDJX wrote:
07 Dec 2018 19:58
Well, a powered sub is the only kind worth having ..... unless you only have a crosley with computer speakers.....etc...... LOL
Passive could be better for a multitude of reasons. My 70 to 24 Hz, 15 inch JBL B-380 sub powered by 560 watt Sony TA-N80ES amp is better than active, since active would preclude me to use a singular bass managemen scheme from the sub for stereo music, multi-channel music, and movie needs; whereas, my passive sub can operate with as many base mangement schemes as desired. For example: my passive sub runs on my Sony TA-9000ES bass management scheme for stereo music, concurently with my Sony TA-P9000ES bass management scheme for multi-channel movies, as well as my OPPO UDP-205's bass management scheme for multi-channel music
thGE5C11LF.jpg
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.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by JDJX » 07 Dec 2018 20:43

So sapping power from your amp to power a sub is better?

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Post by hobie1dog » 07 Dec 2018 20:52

Now I'm thinking about getting another Velodyne so I will have stereo subs.
[/quote] You are now operating your active sub in the manner which will get you desired results. I guess you are just kidding about stereo subs, since low frequencies are non-directional.
[/quote]


If you listen to pipe organ recordings then you can watch the meters on your power amp as the wave changes phase going throughthe church, hence needing stereo subs.

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