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Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

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Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby IndigoRock2001 » 13 Jul 2018 03:00

I just got a yamaha yst-sw215 subwoofer. I have this going strong (a little too strong) on my Yamaha Rx-v675 amp which is a surround home theater system. I noticed the option to set the subwoof for "bass crossover" at 40HZ 80hz 90hz 100hz 110hz 120hz or 160hz. I don't know where to find this out. I currently have it set at 60hz simply because this sounded familiar to me. Can anyone tell me? Much appreciated.
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby Alec124c41 » 13 Jul 2018 04:04

How you set it depends on how low the other speakers go. Check the specs on the main front speakers.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby JDJX » 13 Jul 2018 13:25

There is no correct way to set a sub.
It all depends on.....

1) The bass output of your main speakers.
2) Your room acoustics.

Having said that....
A sub should never call attention to itself and blend seamlessly with your mains.
A final sub setting should be determine by listening to a variety of LPs.... at your normal listening volume.

Keep in mind that the bass can be the most difficult frequency spectrum to get right so, just keep at it as the results are worth it.

If it "sounds right" to you, it probably is. :)
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby IndigoRock2001 » 13 Jul 2018 16:03

So you suggest just trying different Hz and see how they sound? I have an assortment of speaker sizes so I can't really look them up. My main speakers are quite big and produce a lot of bass. They are Marantz somethingorothers. too lazy to get up and look right now. Right now the bass is too noticeable. I spent quite a long time fiddling with the levels of everything. Went into the controls and lowered the bass frequency response on all of the speakers with the parametric equilizer. It's getting there but still bassy enough to make me feel uncomfortable. thanks for the responses. I have one question, will the lower Hz produce more bass or is it the other way around, or does that really have nothing to do with it?
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby JDJX » 13 Jul 2018 17:11

You first want to adjust your mains for the best sound..... including any minor adjustments withe an EQ if you wish.

Then and only then, do you want to add a sub into the mix and adjust that.... for both HZ level and volume. :)

BTW, when you adjust the HZ you are just adjusting the cross over point of the sub.
To increase the volume at a given HZ, you just increase the sub's volume level.
So, both adjustments work in concert to give you the best setting.
Also, just adjust ether one at a time and do some critical listening before you adjust the other.
You have to play with both adjustment to get the best balance. :)

60 HZ is a good stating point.
Keep in mind that few LPs have bass that low.... or very little at best.
So many times you sub will be more or less silent used with quality.
mains.
You will just hear it when called upon.
Last edited by JDJX on 13 Jul 2018 17:33, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby ginniegatrit » 13 Jul 2018 17:20

Sounds like you don't need the sub going at all.
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby JDJX » 13 Jul 2018 18:12

ginniegatrit wrote:Sounds like you don't need the sub going at all.


You have not heard his system is his acoustical environment.
So, how can you make such a judgement and statement?

BTW, all an EQ can do is to increase or decrease frequencies that the mains are capable of reproducing to begin with...at least with any usable volume. :)

Also wen you cut a frequency range with an EQ, it results in no added distortion.
It's just when you increase a frequency range is where any given distortion is added.
Last edited by JDJX on 13 Jul 2018 18:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby Pauw » 13 Jul 2018 18:22

Try as recommended with crossover frequency and volume ....and try changing its position....I fire mine into the wall and well away from the main speakers .....you need to experiment ....
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby JDJX » 13 Jul 2018 18:23

Pauw wrote:Try as recommended with crossover frequency and volume ....and try changing its position....I fire mine into the wall and well away from the main speakers .....you need to experiment ....


Yeah, whatever works. :)
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby Alec124c41 » 13 Jul 2018 20:06

Bass guitar at 43 Hz is not uncommon, and can be the touch that puts a recording across.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby JDJX » 13 Jul 2018 20:39

Alec124c41 wrote:Bass guitar at 43 Hz is not uncommon, and can be the touch that puts a recording across.

Cheers,
Alec


Yeah, as a former rock bass player, I agree. :)

However. many times the very low frequencies are filtered out to get more modulated grooves onto an LP side....... or just due to the discretion of the mixer of the master seeking a certain sound.

BTW, Queen's John Deacon's Fender Precision bass is EQed for a specific sound (also eliminating most really low frequencies) which contributes to the classic / signature Queen sound. .:)

Like I said, it depends on the LP if a sub will be called upon. :)

Anyway, I'm sure you do but, I suspect that many do not realize how very low 40 HZ really is.
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby Alec124c41 » 14 Jul 2018 02:30

Then there is that low low organ note in Saint-Seans 3rd, the Organ Symphony. :)
32 Hz is extremely low, and 16 is alarming.

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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby Hanuman » 14 Jul 2018 07:39

Just to chime in with my 2 cents worth. I agree with all of the above and I'd add that if your main speakers really are genuinely full-range (meaning getting down to around 40Hz or below) then the subwoofer should almost be inaudible for 90% of your records and CDs, certainly not drawing attention to itself anyway. It's only going to be the odd exception like the Saint Saens 3rd or the Blade Runner soundtrack where you're really aware of the contribution of the sub and even then I don't believe it should be dominant. Personally I've always found it very difficult to set bass channel levels by ear but that's just me. I'm not saying a more skilled practitioner could't do it.

The sub low-pass turnover shouldn't be exactly the same number as the lower frequency-response figure of your mains, otherwise you'll get a hump in the response at the turnover. My Martin Logan sub documentation suggests that the low-pass turnover frequency be a figure of about 70% of the lower frequency-response number of the main speakers. Guided by that then your 60Hz turnover should be applicable for mains with a bass response down to about 85Hz. That's the kind of number you'll get from a small bookshelf speaker or near-field studio monitor and yet you say that your mains are quite bass heavy already so I think that the 60Hz turnover is much too high. You should really try to find the actual lower range of your mains so that you can apply a little bit of science first and tweak later.
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby JDJX » 14 Jul 2018 15:13

I will just add......

Finding the lowest frequency output of your mains is not always that easy.

For example.....
A main speaker's specs may say that its lowest output is 40 HZ but, that can be very misleading as the speaker's usable frequency might only go down to about 60HZ and then roll off very sharply after that.

Also a quality sub set at say 60HZ, does no sharply cut off all frequencies above 80 HZ it just rolls off frequencies above 60HZ.

So, the idea is to try to make the speaker roll off and the sub roll off mesh and cancel each other out as much as possible, to to give you a a somewhat flat reposes in the low end.
Of course room acoustics come into play in all this.

Anyway, this is why careful adjustment of a sub is necessary. :)
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Re: Sub woofer and Bass crosover in HZ

Postby IndigoRock2001 » 14 Jul 2018 19:20

I found a record with an extremely low bass passage which sounded horrible it seemed like all of the bass was crashing into itself, and booming in the room, very disturbing. But I used this passage playing it over and over with different Hz numbers. I started by trying the lowest and then the highest 200Hz. I worked from the extreme to the middle range. Just when it seemed like nothing was going to work I hit 115Hz the magic number. The bass completely tamed down and sounded just like I think it should. That passage revealed an extremely low bass but one which sounded as if it belonged, the booming was gone. I'm very pleased. I now have the bass set just so that it enriches the sound and is not otherwise obnoxious. It's great for R&R, which I listen to a lot of, now. I have a couple of hundred Classical CD's from the time when that was all I listened to. I'm tempted to pull some of it out to see what it sounds like now. It's been very interesting to read all of your comments. As always this place is like gold for someone who likes information. Take care
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