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Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 17 Mar 2018 09:13
by cafe latte
GyroSE wrote:
hand of ike wrote:Thanks,

I haven't got the oil yet so I'll get the one suggested I have heard this said before.

Would you recommend using a syringe to fill the reservoir or is it okay to pour in direct?

I emailed Michell and they are going to send me a new bearing...
Then go directly for the Mobil 1 oil instead. Yes I would use a syringe as it makes it possible to fill up the oil container more carefully and controlled.

Sounds great about the bearing ball. Soon you'll have your Gyro SE up and running. :D

EDIT!: Oh, and one more thing. When you're filling the oil container up start that procedure with putting a couple of drops of oil on/around the bearing axle, then fill up the container carefully before putting the bearing house on the axle. Then you're good to go.
Mobile one has additives that absorbs water (like all engine oils). Engines get hot and drive off moisture and the oil system is mostly closed too. Turntable bearings have tiny amounts of oil and are exposed to the air engine oil here will cause corrosion, if you dont believe me I will post pics..
Machine oil without these additives is needed.
Chris

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 17 Mar 2018 09:44
by blakep
As referenced in the other thread, Mobil 1 or other decent quality 0W-40 engine oils will work perfectly well in the Michell bearing over the long, long term with no deleterious effects.

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 17 Mar 2018 18:18
by GyroSE
cafe latte wrote: Mobile one has additives that absorbs water (like all engine oils). Engines get hot and drive off moisture and the oil system is mostly closed too. Turntable bearings have tiny amounts of oil and are exposed to the air engine oil here will cause corrosion, if you dont believe me I will post pics..
Machine oil without these additives is needed.
Chris
I've had my Gyro SE for over 10 years and now also an Orbe SE, I've used Mobile 1 0W-40 all the time- no corrosion, no white slop or rust. The oil that Michell sell as their own is in fact Mobile 1 0W-40...

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 17 Mar 2018 19:03
by hand of ike
GyroSE wrote:
cafe latte wrote: Mobile one has additives that absorbs water (like all engine oils). Engines get hot and drive off moisture and the oil system is mostly closed too. Turntable bearings have tiny amounts of oil and are exposed to the air engine oil here will cause corrosion, if you dont believe me I will post pics..
Machine oil without these additives is needed.
Chris
I've had my Gyro SE for over 10 years and now also an Orbe SE, I've used Mobile 1 0W-40 all the time- no corrosion, no white slop or rust. The oil that Michell sell as their own is in fact Mobile 1 0W-40...
Thanks, I guessed as much!

Cheers

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 17 Mar 2018 22:20
by cafe latte
GyroSE wrote:
cafe latte wrote: Mobile one has additives that absorbs water (like all engine oils). Engines get hot and drive off moisture and the oil system is mostly closed too. Turntable bearings have tiny amounts of oil and are exposed to the air engine oil here will cause corrosion, if you dont believe me I will post pics..
Machine oil without these additives is needed.
Chris
I've had my Gyro SE for over 10 years and now also an Orbe SE, I've used Mobile 1 0W-40 all the time- no corrosion, no white slop or rust. The oil that Michell sell as their own is in fact Mobile 1 0W-40...
I have no experience with Michell bearings, but unless they are somehow sealed water will absorb into the oil. Curious if someone can post a pic?
Engine oils have two additives that are far from ideal for turntable bearings one that emulsifies water bot god for obvious reasons the other causes particles to be held in suspension to allow the oil filter to filter them out, which is fine if there is an oil filter, not so good if there isnt one like in a turntable bearing..
Machine oil does not have either so solids settle out safely and as the oil is exposed to the air it does not form a cream as it lacks emulsifying agents.. Cant imagine why Mitchell would use an engine oil unless the bearing is sealed unless they really dont understand oils..
Chris

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 17 Mar 2018 22:25
by cafe latte
Here is a spindle that was damaged with engine oil. A quick sniff confirmed it was indeed engine oil, it was white goo with brown stains (rust). I cleaned it up and this was the result pitting sadly. I managed to get a new spindle happily..
25761
Chris

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 17 Mar 2018 22:27
by cafe latte
Not sure why the pic is only showing the end?? Click on the pic and it will show in full, very odd..
Chris

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 18 Mar 2018 03:08
by blakep
cafe latte wrote:Cant imagine why Mitchell would use an engine oil unless the bearing is sealed unless they really don't understand oils..
Chris
Don't think either of the Michell bearings in use since the early 80's can be considered as sealed designs; the inverted bearing in use for the past 26 years is definitely not sealed.

Their use (as well as mine and hundreds, if not thousands of other Michell turntable owners) of synthetic 0W-40 engine oil in that time period without damage to the bearing is testament to the fact that they really do understand oils, at least as they pertain to the Michell bearing.

So it is not Michell that has a misunderstanding here.

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 18 Mar 2018 05:31
by cafe latte
blakep wrote:
cafe latte wrote:Cant imagine why Mitchell would use an engine oil unless the bearing is sealed unless they really don't understand oils..
Chris
Don't think either of the Michell bearings in use since the early 80's can be considered as sealed designs; the inverted bearing in use for the past 26 years is definitely not sealed.

Their use (as well as mine and hundreds, if not thousands of other Michell turntable owners) of synthetic 0W-40 engine oil in that time period without damage to the bearing is testament to the fact that they really do understand oils, at least as they pertain to the Michell bearing.

So it is not Michell that has a misunderstanding here.
I am sure the Mitchell is a good turntable but I do question their understanding of oil if they recommend engine oil. It may well work, but I do question how ideal it is. I am sure the turntable is a good design, but how much of an expert was the designer in oil? Would the bearing oil end up white goo in the tropics: I bet yes it would.
I am far from an expert either but I know engine oil is not ideal in open bearing especially if the bearing does not hold much oil (more oil takes longer to get water logged).
If it is the "correct" oil I would be changing it quite regularly especially if me anyone lives in the tropics and like me without aircon.
Chris

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 18 Mar 2018 06:44
by watchnerd
GyroSE wrote:
hand of ike wrote:
Lastly when I got the table home after transit I reassembled the unit but the small ball bearing fell onto the floor. I’m sure it’s not damaged but as I’m doing a sort of mini service I’d like to replace the ball. Anyone know which size and type is used?

Kind regards

I'm not sure about the bearing ball size, send an email to Michell directly and ask about this to be sure to get the right one.
There are a number of us that have replaced the bearing ball with 7/32 IN-C SI3N4 BALL GRADE 3.

I just installed mine today, working great.

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 18 Mar 2018 07:17
by GyroSE
cafe latte wrote: I am sure the Mitchell is a good turntable but I do question their understanding of oil if they recommend engine oil. It may well work, but I do question how ideal it is. I am sure the turntable is a good design, but how much of an expert was the designer in oil? Would the bearing oil end up white goo in the tropics: I bet yes it would.
I am far from an expert either but I know engine oil is not ideal in open bearing especially if the bearing does not hold much oil (more oil takes longer to get water logged).
If it is the "correct" oil I would be changing it quite regularly especially if me anyone lives in the tropics and like me without aircon.
Chris
Well John Michell was for sure no amateur, he knew what he was doing and that includes the bearing. The inverted bearing is one of the major strengths when it comes to the Michell decks so of course they knew what they were doing when they chose what kind of bearing oil to use.

I change oil every second to every third year and I must say the old oil and the new one look very similar. So I believe it's working very well.

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 18 Mar 2018 07:23
by cafe latte
GyroSE wrote:
cafe latte wrote: I am sure the Mitchell is a good turntable but I do question their understanding of oil if they recommend engine oil. It may well work, but I do question how ideal it is. I am sure the turntable is a good design, but how much of an expert was the designer in oil? Would the bearing oil end up white goo in the tropics: I bet yes it would.
I am far from an expert either but I know engine oil is not ideal in open bearing especially if the bearing does not hold much oil (more oil takes longer to get water logged).
If it is the "correct" oil I would be changing it quite regularly especially if me anyone lives in the tropics and like me without aircon.
Chris
Well John Michell was for sure no amateur, he knew what he was doing and that includes the bearing. The inverted bearing is one of the major strengths when it comes to the Michell decks so of course they knew what they were doing when they chose what kind of bearing oil to use.

I change oil every second to every third year and I must say the old oil and the new one look very similar. So I believe it's working very well.
Like I said it is a great design, but just questioning why he did not use a machine oil of the same specs. IMO if he really knew oils he would have, but again just my speculation. Maybe he did not consider the decks being used in the tropics?
How much oil does the bearing hold, just curious?
Chris

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 18 Mar 2018 13:37
by GyroSE
cafe latte wrote: Like I said it is a great design, but just questioning why he did not use a machine oil of the same specs. IMO if he really knew oils he would have, but again just my speculation. Maybe he did not consider the decks being used in the tropics?
How much oil does the bearing hold, just curious?
Chris
May I suggest that you get in touch with Michell Engineering directly, they're able to give you answers about the technical aspects like bearing oil and bearing well. Please let us know what they answer you as we're curious about this as well.

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 18 Mar 2018 17:40
by hand of ike
40753

Well I’ve got my oil, Marvin seems to approve....

He’ll get first spin too!

Re: Bearing oil replacement

Posted: 18 Mar 2018 23:09
by cafe latte
GyroSE wrote:
cafe latte wrote: Like I said it is a great design, but just questioning why he did not use a machine oil of the same specs. IMO if he really knew oils he would have, but again just my speculation. Maybe he did not consider the decks being used in the tropics?
How much oil does the bearing hold, just curious?
Chris
May I suggest that you get in touch with Michell Engineering directly, they're able to give you answers about the technical aspects like bearing oil and bearing well. Please let us know what they answer you as we're curious about this as well.
Sent them a message.
Chris