Whats the hype about 12d's ?

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T68
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Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by T68 » 09 Oct 2018 07:29

Hi guys!
Hope you forgive a Dual owner to pop in here your fine Pioneer forum.
But I got to ask you about those old 12D decks. Everytime one of those surface on the big swedish auction sites or craigslist-alikes, there´s a lot of interest and prices tend to take off a lot more than similar turntables from the 70´s.
If I understand right this is a pretty basic entry-level table. But maybe it´s so well built that it´s worth going for?

Right now I´m rocking a Dual 1225 that i got for $25. I´ve never seen a Pioneer 12d go for less than $200 over here.

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by Pauw » 09 Oct 2018 08:57

In their time the PL12 was a big step forward. Why it was a reasonably priced partially suspended frame turntable with a reasonable arm. It was a step up on the BSRs and Garrard Sp25 etc and bettered that kind of performance. Pioneer was a big manufacturer and as such it was easily available at a good price usually with something like a shure 75EJ etc....It got good write ups in the press and was the entry to a good level of HI-Fi.....It was a classic ..........BUT that was THEN......as time went on it was copied and paved the way for several other decks that could out perform it........but it was iconic .......so now in 2018 it is sought after as a classic......however I believe some don't really understand that it was good in its day but its day was late 70s .....and its specs and performance reflect that.... :D

T68
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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by T68 » 09 Oct 2018 10:21

Thanks for explaining this, Pauw! Now it makes more sense why those TT:s are so sought after.

vinyl master
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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by vinyl master » 09 Oct 2018 17:06

Well, I guess I'm thankful I got one when I did! :D

I still love mine and it's a classic! 8)

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by nikkita_katana » 15 Oct 2018 11:49

And I guess I got really lucky finding one a month or so ago for £43.
And playing 1980's records through some 1980's wharfedale speakers it sounds far from outdated to me.
Will get to hear how well it does with some 2006 trance 12" singles later this week!! :wink: :D

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by JDJX » 15 Oct 2018 19:24

I got a Pioneer 112D when I first got back into vinyl a few years ago
It's basically 12D with minor changes They are both very nice TTS from that era and yeah, they are sought after by some.

I do not consider either one an entry level TT .
They are both manual TTs and do just one thing very well...play records
Why anyone will get the idea that they are 'entry level" is beyond me....
Most real audiophiles want a completely manual TT.

Also, the requirement for a good TT have not changed since the '70s
The only real advancements that have been made is in price and aesthetics ...... and of course, audio snake oil.
Every era has its own unique idea of audio hardware beauty, which does nothing to influence sound. :)

The Pioneer is now my back up solely because I got a great vintage pristine Thorens 165 TT for a great price
I have great experience with a similar Thorens in the "70s and have a penchant for them.

Otherwise , I would still be using the Pioneer as my primary TT instead of being my" back up" TT. :)

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by vs music » 16 Oct 2018 00:43

Few years used Pioneer PL-12d mk2 . It's a good record player . Used cartridges of the Empire . Sounds great . Now use Kenwood KP-770 , but Pioneer still have and don't want to sell .

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by vinyl master » 16 Oct 2018 09:00

Being it's such a beloved TT, maybe we need a Pioneer appreciation thread now? What do you guys think? :-k

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by nikkita_katana » 17 Oct 2018 00:49

vinyl master wrote:
16 Oct 2018 09:00
Being it's such a beloved TT, maybe we need a Pioneer appreciation thread now? What do you guys think? :-k
Can't speak for the guys but this girl says "count me in!!"
I've been in trance world for the last 2 evenings and this 12d might be getting on a bit but gosh, there's some really nice sounds coming out of it. Even had to turn the bass control down on the amp on some tracks.

I recall you asking recently how the Goldring Elektra was performing Vinyl_Master, well I can say is it's sounding great to me on everything. 80's synth pop sounds fabulous. Trance is proper banging and Suzanne Vega sounds like she's in the room. I have no idea what "audiophile" kit is supposed to sound like but this is way better than anything I'll ever need.
:D

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by audiopile » 17 Oct 2018 04:06

Sold a ton of PL-12D's back in the day. Being in the USA - IIRR usually with a M91E. These were a game changer - a real world retail $110 table/cart that wouldn't destroy records and has held up amazingly well. Sold by must of been at least in the 100,000's . Doesn't have the mechanical (lube) issues that have done in most of their historic competitors. New belt -new cart or stylus- and there's a pretty good chance a ancient PL-12D might just be the best thing to ever play a record in your hearing. Hate to rain on the parade -but better tables do exist (and you can hear the difference) -will you find a better value for your money -maybe not ?

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by vinyl master » 17 Oct 2018 08:31

audiopile wrote:
17 Oct 2018 04:06
Hate to rain on the parade -but better tables do exist (and you can hear the difference) -will you find a better value for your money -maybe not ?
Better tables ALWAYS exist...ahem...for those with the deep pockets to buy them...When have better tables NOT existed??? :? And that too depends on how you define "better"...

Of course, THIS thread ISN'T about THEM, but how the game-changing PL-12D's of the world have held up and still continue to play records without ruining them...Crosleys exist, too...EVERYWHERE! #-o But, a PL-12D in good shape will smoke a Crosley right out of the water, and that's about all Crosley is good for...SMOKE...AND MIRRORS! :wink: :lol:

Plus, the PL-12D has those good looks that would draw people in to buy a Crosley...It just has a better build quality, which is probably why so many were sold and still continue to sell and be used to play records!

You won't find a better value for your money and I'll agree with you there...Again, the cartridge has the most important effect on the sound, and if you switch out the cartridge and try another one, you will notice differences there, too...Trying out different carts is what makes it fun, my friends...When you're pleasantly surprised by something like this deck (thinking it not worthy), even better! I don't know...Somehow, I seem to have an affinity for this deck and there's a reason it's in my back-up system...For my money, they are solid, sturdy workhorses that have held up time and time again, often long after the manufacturer probably deemed possible and with care can sing for another 50 years! What's not to like??? =D>

And like I said...We've GOT to keep pieces like this from entering the landfills...They are just WAY TOO GOOD to not give them a second chance! [-X

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by audiopile » 17 Oct 2018 16:32

Ya -can you imagine a product development meeting where the marketing folks would tell the engineers : "we need to get at least a 50 year product life from this design." Yet these tables have done it - even selling used at twice what they sold for at retail new (not at all bad when you factor in inflation)- they are a real value today. Plus Pioneer manufactured this model for a long enough period of time and vast numbers - most audio repair shops are unlikely to bin even a damaged beyond repair table -parts are parts and of some value. Dust covers are the one piece that can be a little hard to find and require patience in the search. The Panasonic/Technics DD tables are right behind them in terms of longevity -don't even have to replace the belts. Crosley's are special -witness the number of video clips featuring them and firearms , accelerants or explosives. Wonder how many SL-23's Panasonic made ?

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by KentT » 22 Oct 2018 17:11

audiopile wrote:
17 Oct 2018 04:06
Sold a ton of PL-12D's back in the day. Being in the USA - IIRR usually with a M91E. These were a game changer - a real world retail $110 table/cart that wouldn't destroy records and has held up amazingly well. Sold by must of been at least in the 100,000's . Doesn't have the mechanical (lube) issues that have done in most of their historic competitors. New belt -new cart or stylus- and there's a pretty good chance a ancient PL-12D might just be the best thing to ever play a record in your hearing. Hate to rain on the parade -but better tables do exist (and you can hear the difference) -will you find a better value for your money -maybe not ?
In that era, the best good basic turntable that $100 or slightly more money could buy. Had a good arm, was well made, though basic, did nothing wrong. Simply played records, and performed very well for an economy model turntable. And today, you'd spend 5-6 times more money for a turntable that in several areas, is not as competent at the core essentials of playing records. A new belt, new stylus, some lubrication where needed, odds are it will work and work well. And maintained well, will continue to do so for years.

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Re: Whats the hype about 12d's ?

Post by DubbaDubbaDubbaCha » 24 Oct 2018 11:13

I got mine in near mint condition for $50 bucks. Cartridge cost me $35. I can barely tell the difference between a CD and this table. I satisfied enough to never buy another table.

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