Knosti anti static fluid

how clean is your house
ayrshiredude
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by ayrshiredude » 08 Jun 2017 20:56

Lol I wish I could afford one.

Jampot90
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by Jampot90 » 09 Jun 2017 06:42

rinsed in deionized water/ups solution but still crackly and that's a new record
I use the Knosti system, but don't rely on either the fluid or the tank to 'clean' used records. I use Disk Doctor fluid and pads for the first muck shifting phase, rinse in a knosti tank with distilled water, then in a second knosti tank with knosti fluid. What ever you do don't wipe the record after that last rinse. I lay the wet record on a micro fibre cloth to 'blot' most of the fluid off each side and then air dry.

De- ionised water is widely sold as a substitute for distilled and is fine for topping up old style car batteries (see Halfords) however de-ionising doean't remove minute particles so not up to snuff for our purpose. Distilled water is available from Amazon but being high weight / low value is listed as an 'add on' item. That is, you can only get it when buying other stuff.

For sure, discard the distilled water after use, but since my records are now clean I have no reservations about re-using the knosti fluid for reducing static. In my experience it works and I don't have crud on my stylus.

Disk Doctor stuff doesn't seem to be available in UK these days but I have no doubt that any other cleaner including the home brews described above will work for that initial scrub. Similar velvet pad are available.

Nothing wrong with being 'down the rabbit hole' providing we enjoy the music!

Jim

ayrshiredude
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by ayrshiredude » 11 Jun 2017 12:16

Ok what am I doing wrong here. Cleaned a few of my records again last night. I used a mix of water, IPA and dishwasher rinse aid. Listening to me new remastered Paul Simon Graceland album and it's totally unlistenable. Huge distortion all the way through it and some points the sound actually disappears. What have I done wrong?

Legrace
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by Legrace » 11 Jun 2017 14:08

ayrshiredude wrote:Ok what am I doing wrong here. Cleaned a few of my records again last night. I used a mix of water, IPA and dishwasher rinse aid. Listening to me new remastered Paul Simon Graceland album and it's totally unlistenable. Huge distortion all the way through it and some points the sound actually disappears. What have I done wrong?
You've managed to foul the grooves. Try your solution again but afterwards apply a strong spray of tap water to flush out the grooves followed by a rinse with distilled to clean off the impure tap water.

ayrshiredude
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by ayrshiredude » 11 Jun 2017 14:12

Thanks I'll try that. Its the only record in the batch I cleaned last night like that. The others are all fine.

tlscapital
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by tlscapital » 11 Jun 2017 14:48

ayrshiredude wrote:Ok what am I doing wrong here. Cleaned a few of my records again last night. I used a mix of water, IPA and dishwasher rinse aid. Listening to me new remastered Paul Simon Graceland album and it's totally unlistenable. Huge distortion all the way through it and some points the sound actually disappears. What have I done wrong?
What do you call IPA ? For water use only descaled or distilled water. Otherwise you will have scale residue. Even if the dishwasher rinse aid should counter act that and leave a shiny finish, it's such a "nasty" product, I wouldn't put that on my records.

As 'Legrace' advised you to, do it a send time with a good rince and cloth dry session to get rid of any scale residue.

Anyway, whatever your recipe, only use very soft cloth/material that can be thrown away. In the end always give a good clean wipe-dry. I use to stir bit of dish soap into mild warm water first on a dipped cotton ball then with distilled/descaled water give light rinse before a total wipe-dry with anew cotton ball.

Now, I use 50% isopropyl 50% distilled/descaled water and cotton balls for as good result but only with less rub and faster dry. This requires a better coordination but is as good or even better with some greasier or harder dirts. These operations are to be done occasionally not regularly.

As for the static matter, make sure to have your turntable well grounded (to spare the platter) and have good dampening mat(s) that is as less static as possible on the top side. Then get rid of the dust when you put your record on the turntable with a nylon brush or a heavy microfiber cloth.

ayrshiredude
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by ayrshiredude » 11 Jun 2017 15:06

IPA - isopropyl alcohol. Made up a solution of approximately 20% IPA and the rest deionized water with a few drops of dish washer rinse aid as the wetting agent. Washed about 7 records in that solution with the Paul Simon one being second. It was the only one to sound horrible.

My TT is connected to the phono preamp amp using the phono to phono cable with the attached earth cable. Not sure if your meant to earth after that as the amp doesn't have an earth screw.

I have a home made mat made from the rubbery matting you buy in rolls as I read somewhere it was good. The TT came with a very thin felt Matt that was terrible for static. You'd lift the record up and the mat would go with it. I have a thicker rubber mat from an old TT but concerned about the VTA.

tlscapital
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by tlscapital » 11 Jun 2017 17:25

Mmh, my turntable chassis and sub-chasis have have it's own ground and my tonearm have another separate one. But that's what my set-up requires. If your doesn't require a separate tonearm ground, I guess you're good. Indeed, it seems your tonearm has no VTA movement. So mat choice... is one or two and thin.

For Paul Simon, I mean the record, I guess that some residue of your "cleaning mix" got the chance to dry and left a "coating" in/on the groove that causes the stylus to not read it right. Either a second clean or few plays for the stylus to scrape (some do that, not me) but then always clean the stylus after, until it's right back.

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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by BMRR » 03 Dec 2018 18:41

I just purchased a Knosti and used it today for the first time. I made a cleaning liquid with the following ingredients:

20 ounces of distilled water

10 ounces of 91% isopropyl alcohol (91% is the highest concentration I can buy locally)

1 drop of Cascade rinse aid

This makes 30 ounces of solution, perfect for filling a standard 32 ounce bottle.

The single drop of rinse aid seems to help the solution sheet away but it doesn't create any suds or bubbles.

I cleaned a batch of dirty, grimy, filthy records from the local thrift shop. They came out very clean! I placed them in the drying rack and there was no visible liquid after 15 minutes of air drying. After 1 hour I played them and I'm VERY impressed. Surface noise is quiet or nonexistent with most of them. There is no gunk on my stylus.

The results seem 90% as good as my Vinyl Vac, but faster and much less labor-intensive.

And there is NO STATIC!

jdjohn
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by jdjohn » 03 Dec 2018 23:02

Hey BMRR,

I'm glad you got good results with your mixture. No doubt your records sound better. Without including a detergent, though, you will be leaving some debris behind after the water evaporates. Detergents allow the 'dirt' to be lifted and caught in suspension within the fluid, which can then be rinsed away. Triton X-100 is a lab-grade detergent (for cleaning beakers and stuff in labs) with no coloring or scents added. The rinse aid is basically a surfactant, which reduces surface tension of the water - eliminating drops that can cause spots, but not providing any real cleaning.

Looking back through this thread, I had posted a DIY cleaning solution soon after getting my Knosti. I eventually did some more research, and now use this solution: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=104087

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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by AWNorfolk » 18 May 2019 08:14

I have recently bought a KNOSTI and I have to say: don't! At first, test cleaning half a dozen LPs, that really did crackle, the immediate results seemed amazing! I did the prescribed routine, using the pack fluid, and they dried, and then a few hours later tried the first batch. Sound-wise, no crackle, except, of course, where there were actual surface marks, but the static had gone. Yes, as with most comments, there was this annoying build up of fluff or dirt on the stylus, and with a precision stylus, and correct weight of tone arm and alignment, this can cause problems. So, I thought, ''Okay'', play them once, then that should clear whatever it was in the grooves. My big mistake was washing 350 records!! The problem is simple, and this is it: there is absolutely no way on earth that ANY fluid, with brush action, will remove tiny particles from the very bottom of vinyl grooves! For this, it needs high pressure! Either in water-jet or air-jet and this is the problem. All the KNOSTI does is soften the dirt, release SOME, but the rest gets compacted into the grooves, and as a result if you come back to play a record some days later it will do as many of mine did: the tone arm will skip across blocked channels or the sound will distort, as the necessary frequencies have been marred or the dust and debris will just dull all use of the pick up!

I wish to GOD I had not bought this junk! I am now trying to figure out how I can build a mini pressure washer based cleaner, to rescue my records, from this nonsense!

dysmike
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by dysmike » 18 May 2019 15:18

Never reuse the fluid. Use it once, and dump it. I wouldn't use it for more than a rack full either personally. You really don't need much more than a brush to clean the grooves. This is how vacuum RCMs work as well.

The problem with a bath type cleaner is that the dirt becomes suspended in the wash fluid. There is a flocculant added to help drop the dirt to the bottom of the bath, but in my experience once there is a certain amount it will no longer work.

At least those are my observations from using my knosti-clone, which I do still use sometimes before the RCM (depending on the dirt level)

jdjohn
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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by jdjohn » 18 May 2019 15:41

You have to do a rinse cycle with only distilled water in order to remove the debris that was lifted in the first step. AW, if you do another cycle with just distilled water (and change-out the water every 10 records or so), you should be okay.

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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by Bonzo_Dog » 21 May 2019 22:53

I have been using Knosti Disco Antistat since 2012 and very soon I started with my own home brew fluid:
25% alcohol/IPA (95% or more), 75% distilled water, 2 drops of surfactant.

I very soon started with a second bath with distilled water. Since 2016 I have used a second Knosti for this purpose only. The second bath with distilled water is very important to get the record clean.

One cleaning batch is at most seven records. The home brew is filtered back to the bottle when finished and is re-used 5-10 batches before I change it. The distilled water rinse is used for one batch only.

Some experiences:
  • The cleaning process is very much a craft that must be learned before the cleaning is good.
  • Use slow revolutions in both directions to avoid wetting the label and let the fluid get time to work.
  • Handle the record very carefully when putting it in/out of the drying rack to avoid damages.
I had some problems with drying spots on the record if I let it dry completely in the rack. These spots could be audible so I started with this technique that works well for me:

Let the record only drip off in the drying rack, then place it on a lint free cloth (micro fibre kitchen towel) on a flat surface, put another lint free cloth (micro fibre kitchen towel) on the top of it. Then place a book that covers (most of) the record surface (or something similar) on top of the record to suck the rest of the fluid drops out. Don't rub to avoid inducing static again. Put the record back in the drying rack to let the last moisture dry off.

A record is normally cleaned once and for all this way. New records might just get the distilled water rinse.

However, there are records that need more cleaning than this. Then I can use L'art du Son and/or 2-in-1 shampoo/conditioner first. The 2-in1 with a velvet brush is perfect for dirty records. When using these fluids the record is rinsed in lukewarm or colder tap water (it's quite clean where I live) with the Knosti label protector on.

This method works very well for me and I get clean non-static records (more than 500 records cleaned so far).
Don't forget a new inner sleeve for the cleaned record.

A vacuum cleaner in addition could be handy, but then you risk inducing static if you are not careful. The method described above seems to work just fine.

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Re: Knosti anti static fluid

Post by vince1 » 22 May 2019 23:46

jdjohn wrote:
08 Jun 2017 18:24
I bought a Knosti from Kyluckyman(RIP), and he recommended this cocktail after doing his own research.
50ml of 99% isopropyl alcohol
5ml of Triton
1ml (a few drops) of PhotoFlo
Fill the rest with distilled water (about 440-445ml)

The Triton and PhotoFlo are not necessarily easy to find, but in his memory, this is what I use, and now I have enough to last awhile. It does create a few suds...not sure from which chemical. After washing, and then rinsing the tub thoroughly, I do a second treatment/rinse on the records with just distilled water.

Of course, the dishwasher rinse aid is much easier to find than Triton and PhotoFlo, and I'm sure works very well. But when I saw the subject title of Knosti, I thought of Bob and had to post this :| He had purchased on Okki Nokki to replace his Knosti.
sorry, but this formulation just doesn't make any sense. Photoflo is just a mixture of Triton (5-10%) and Propylene Glycol (25-30%). See for yourself here: https://www.msdsdigital.com/kodak-photo ... ution-msds
The propylene glycol is sticky and not recommended for records (If you use a photographic product alone, then Ilford's Ilfotol is better as it doesn't contain the glycol, just the surfactant). Hence, there is no reason to add Triton X-100 (= octylphenoxypolyethoxyethanol), then more triton with photoflo. The surfactant is the same and the glycol is bad.
Dishwasher rinse aid is acidic as heck, it also doesn't belong on your records. Preservationists agree: You will never find the best record cleaning agents in your supermarket.