Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

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mark79
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Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by mark79 » 08 May 2017 23:02

To Vince1: Dear Vince after much trial and error and very careful measuring, I believe I have come up with a very good solution. I very much trust your advice and expertise above anyone else's, so I thought I would run it by you to get your feedback. 32 ounces of distilled water-4 cups, to this I add as I'm mixing it: 4 ounces of 91% IPA, 4 droppers of lab grade Triton X 100, finally 5 droppers of the 20% Pooltime. I then mix it up real good and let it set for a while with the cap on the bottle. The droppers I use are medical grade glass and the drops are very small. I may tweat this a little in the future, but I would really like your feedback on all of this. Thanks very much for your advice and comments. Regards; Mark79

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by mark79 » 08 May 2017 23:10

Vince1: I meant drops, not the whole dropper. And tweat was supposed tweak. Sorry for the spelling. Thank You. Regards; Mark79

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by vince1 » 09 May 2017 20:28

It sounds reasonable, but without knowing the volume of your drops, it is hard to say. If it is all rinsing away nicely and foaming is under control, and the records play without noise, you are golden. How are you dispersing the Triton? It doesn't go into aqueous solutions very well (the sitting time will help). You could pre-disperse it in the 4 oz of IPA, then dilute everything up (it goes right into IPA).
Measure your drops. If your 4 drops are say 1 ml then you are doing close to a 1:1000 dilution (actually 1:946) of the 100% stock so final is ~0.1% Triton. If you have no way to measure small volumes, you can get a fair estimate by weighing the 4 drops on a postal scale. It is close enough for cleaning purposes to say a gram of Triton is about a ml (density is ~1.07 gm/cm3).

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by sturgus » 13 May 2017 03:24

Vince, what's a good quat to add to the Triton-x mix to keep it neutral?
Thanks
Sturgus

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by vince1 » 13 May 2017 08:46

The quats aren't really neutral, they are positively charged, but this is what we want for their antistatic effects. They are also antimicrobials and groove lubricants so are quite useful. I like to use mixtures of the following, because they are easier to find:
Didecyldimethylammonium chloride, Dimethyldioctadecylammonium chloride (= distearyl dimethyl ammonium chloride), Benzalkonium chloride (= alkyldimethylbenzylammonium chloride).

A cleaning mix that is about 22% of these is Hepastat256, and can be found at Quill, Amazon, or Staples (http://www.coastwidelabs.com/products/p ... eb4251.pdf). In practice, we use it at 1:500 to 1:2000 dilution (0.01 to 0.04% quat). The mix also contains smaller amounts of EDTA (a chelating agent that will help eliminate mineral deposits), a non-ionic detergent (similar to Triton), and ethanol. These will not interfere and can be beneficial. There is also a bit of dye, but it is water soluble. The pH of the diluted solution is slightly basic (7.5 to 8.0), which is also beneficial.
There are several others on the market (many with 256 in the name as that is the concentrate they recommend using for washing surfaces = 1:256. too strong for record use). They are commonly found in sanitation supply houses. They are also available as pool and spa cleaners (algicides). Some of the brands are:
3M Quat Disinfectant Cleaner (carried by Office Depot)
Lysol IC Quaternary Disinfectant Cleaner (available on Amazon)
Spartan, “Sparquat 256” or "GS High Dilution Disinfectant 256"
Brulin, “Maxima 256” or "Uniquat Neutral Disinfectant 256"
Stetson, “HBV Disinfectant 256”
Multi-clean, “Century Q 256”
Diverse, “Virex II 256”
National Chemical Lab, “Neutra-Cide 256”
US Chemical "Mixmate O" or "Sanitation System Disinfectant 256"

There are MANY others as they have become bleach substitutes in sensitive environments (e.g. hospitals, schools, food service areas). Just find one that doesn't have a lot of unnecessary stuff like fragrance, salts, or dyes (some is unavoidable).

I've only tested the Hepastat and the 3M brands, but most are the same general formulation. One gallon is enough for 1000-2000 gallons of record cleaner so you get a lifetime supply - Very useful for ultrasonic tanks since they go through large volumes of cleaner. I also like them in my VPI vacuum-based cleaner as it keeps fungus from growing in the tanks, brushes, and tubing. In both these systems, my cleaning mix contains between 0.1-0.5% Triton, 0.01-0.04% Quat, and 5% IPA. (the higher range for the vacuum unit, the lower for the ultrasonic tank). The formula can be increased for hand-cleaning. Either way, cleaning is always followed by 2 rinses with dH2O.
Back in the day, I used to use pure behentrimonium sulfate or cetrimonium chloride as my quat. I bought it from chemical companies for my laboratory, but they are also available from beauty supply companies as people use them to make their own hair conditioners. The problem is they are a bit difficult to work with so I've been recommending the quat disinfectant cleaners to people. The formulation cleans very well, eliminates issues with static, kills microbes, neutralizes the acids that result from PVC breakdown (due to age), and leaves a molecular layer of surfactant that lubricates the playing surface. As many have found, the audible improvements are remarkable.

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by sturgus » 14 May 2017 05:42

Thanks for the reply. I just ordered some from Amazon. I have the Triton-x, Distilled water. Can I use the 91% IPA in this mix?
Thanks

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by vince1 » 14 May 2017 14:05

yes. You really only need the super pure 99% in wipe solutions where there is no rinse, but in a detergent wash solution, 91% works fine. I try to keep the final alcohol concentration under 15% in all my solutions, with 5-10% being typical, but you can also go alcohol-free with this mix.

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by spikey_w » 16 May 2017 12:26

I just received a bottle of Triton but the bottle is labelled "Octoxinol 9". This is from Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triton-X-100- ... SwHptY-4Ki

I worried this is not the same thing and hesitant to try this on my records. Also the consistency is a bit thin and wonder is this less concentrated and have to up the percentage to the mix.

38250

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by ilyavictoria » 16 May 2017 13:18

Hi vince1,

Are you aware of any commercially available products that would provide similar results?

Thank you.

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by vince1 » 16 May 2017 19:26

spikey_w wrote:I just received a bottle of Triton but the bottle is labelled "Octoxinol 9". ...
I worried this is not the same thing and hesitant to try this on my records. Also the consistency is a bit thin and wonder is this less concentrated and have to up the percentage to the mix.
That is the same thing. Different manufacturers use different names so they don't step on each other's trademarks. As to the concentration, it should be 100%. Is there no paperwork with it? Anything on the bottle? If not, just assume it is 100% and give it a try. Remember it takes awhile to go into water so it sometimes is best to dissolve in a little isopropanol first. If IPA is not in your mix, just let it stir in the water for a few hours. If your not using sterile pipettes and glassware, keep the bottles in the refrigerator so you don't get mold growth. If you are mixing in a quat, then this isn't an issue (can be stored at room temp).

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by vince1 » 16 May 2017 19:32

ilyavictoria wrote:Hi vince1,

Are you aware of any commercially available products that would provide similar results?

Thank you.
You mean for Triton? No, but you can substitute Tergitol 15-S-7. A guy on Amazon repackages the Tergitol as "Tergikleen" and charges you well for the convenience. Otherwise, Talas and several other preservation product distributors sell them.
If you mean Triton + Quat, there is one company that sells a record cleaning product that contains a similar mix, but I will not recommend them as they used me to consult, stole my idea, then did not honor the agreement and never paid me anything. It's too difficult to sue them as they are not in the US. In any event, it is easy to make your own. Besides, the Triton/Hepastat performs even better than their version and it is 100x less expensive.

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by spikey_w » 17 May 2017 21:26

vince1 wrote:
spikey_w wrote:I just received a bottle of Triton but the bottle is labelled "Octoxinol 9". ...
I worried this is not the same thing and hesitant to try this on my records. Also the consistency is a bit thin and wonder is this less concentrated and have to up the percentage to the mix.
That is the same thing. Different manufacturers use different names so they don't step on each other's trademarks. As to the concentration, it should be 100%. Is there no paperwork with it? Anything on the bottle? If not, just assume it is 100% and give it a try. Remember it takes awhile to go into water so it sometimes is best to dissolve in a little isopropanol first. If IPA is not in your mix, just let it stir in the water for a few hours. If your not using sterile pipettes and glassware, keep the bottles in the refrigerator so you don't get mold growth. If you are mixing in a quat, then this isn't an issue (can be stored at room temp).
Thanks for clarifying that. I've made the cleaning mix and it appears to work OK.

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by WntrMute2 » 30 May 2017 14:04

I'm wondering if the 71% IPA will be adequate? Mostly just for the ease of obtaining it. I calculate that a final concentration of 5% of 99% would be 71 mls. of IPA in a liter of mix. Sound correct? I've been using just the Triton X-100 or the Tergitol 15-3-7 in my mix with nothing else and it seems to work very well but I'm wondering if the addition of the Hepastat and IPA might improve on a good thing.

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by WntrMute2 » 30 May 2017 14:57

https://www.quill.com/brighton-professi ... tion=FalseIn searching for the Hepastat I found that Quill seems to have the best price and new customers get 20% off.

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Re: Record Cleaning Solution Using Triton X-100

Post by mark79 » 06 Jun 2017 00:16

Dear Vince1: I just found an IC cleaning formula (all-purpose) and would like your feedback on it. Octyl Dimethyl Ammonium Chloride 0.026%. Didecyl Ammonium Chloride 0.013% Dioctyl Dimethyl Ammonium Chloride 0.013%, Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium Chloride 0.34%. Would this be safe, and if so what would be the dilution rate for 32 ounces? To use with a Discwasher brush. Thank-You for you expertise. Regards; Mark79

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