Cleaning moldy records?

how clean is your house
vince1
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 212
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 16:32

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by vince1 » 21 Dec 2016 01:14

Yes, they use heavy amounts in cleaning applications as they are not concerned with residues as we are. You can always use a 0.5% solution around the house, or at least around your listening area to control static. I also clean out my RCM tank and brushes with these solutions to keep molds away.

tom6to1
member
member
Canada
Posts: 201
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 18:09
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by tom6to1 » 29 Dec 2016 04:46

It is not easy to track down "quats" in Canada. In my searches, I am finding pool algaecides that seem to have quats as the basic compound, but was looking for advise to be certain as there are many different quats. I particular, I am looking at algaecides that are 5% dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides. The formulation also contains n-Alkyl (40% C12, 50% C14, 10% C16). I will assume the Cnn is the number of carbon atoms but carbon atoms in what? Is this compound, when diluted as apart of a record cleaning solution, safe to use on vinyl as an anti-stat / disinfectant?

EmmEff
junior member
junior member
Posts: 14
Joined: 29 Jun 2013 01:19

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by EmmEff » 29 Dec 2016 16:46

I am finding the same, tom6to1. Nothing at Canadian Tire or Home Hardware that I can identify. I am about to break down and buy a dedicated vinyl cleaner.

vince1
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 212
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 16:32

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by vince1 » 29 Dec 2016 21:07

tom6to1 wrote:It is not easy to track down "quats" in Canada. In my searches, I am finding pool algaecides that seem to have quats as the basic compound, but was looking for advise to be certain as there are many different quats. I particular, I am looking at algaecides that are 5% dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides. The formulation also contains n-Alkyl (40% C12, 50% C14, 10% C16). I will assume the Cnn is the number of carbon atoms but carbon atoms in what? Is this compound, when diluted as apart of a record cleaning solution, safe to use on vinyl as an anti-stat / disinfectant?
The Cnn is the length (in carbon atoms) of the carbon chain that forms the hydrophobic "tail" in the surfactant. The compounds are typically mixtures and that is why they list the approximate percentages of the different length compounds. What is important is what comes after this. It should say n-Alkyl (40% C12, 50% C14, 10% C16) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride which refers to the quaternary ammonium "head" region of the compound. Is this what it says? What else is in the mix? Other ingredients (Urea, silica gel, salts, etc ) can be bad for record cleaning. What is the listed pH of the mixture?
Many all-quat cleaners are available for professionals: have you tried janitorial supply houses?

tom6to1
member
member
Canada
Posts: 201
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 18:09
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by tom6to1 » 31 Dec 2016 04:17

Hi Vince1. Thanks for the reply and the questions. The label in both cases reads:

n-alkyl(40% C12, 50% C14, 10% C16)
Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chlorides 5%

(The same product is available in a 15% formulation)
There is no listing of other ingredients or of PH of the mixture. There is a Canadian government control document under the P.C.P. (Pest Control Products Act) Act for product 16898 that will take you (well, a google search will take you) to an evaluation document for Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride (ADBAC) which describes its use as an algaecide, disinfectant, and wood preserver in 100+ registered products in Canada (16898 is the Canadian Tire Algaecide). On page 15 they note that "ADBAC is hydrolytically stable under abiotic and buffered conditions over the pH 5–9 range". I think that means I can assume the PH of the algaecide is in the same range so no more than a mild acid or mild base. There is no mention of the use of this product as an anti-static agent. Does this sound promising?

To take this in a different direction: A Canadian back on that other site has managed to order something called "Behentrimonium Chloride, ethyl alcohol" as a hair conditioner raw material on Amazon.com from a company called Making Cosmetics. It is used as an anti-static agent, not as an algaecide/disinfectant. There is an SDS for it. It is described as waxy solid in flake-form. It is made from canola oil and has an alcohol smell. Is this suitable for inclusion in a record cleaning solution? Is it a better alternative?

vince1
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 212
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 16:32

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by vince1 » 31 Dec 2016 15:35

Either quat will work as both have surfactant structure (long carbon tails, polar heads) and both anti-stat and biocidal properties. I have tested Behentriammonium Chloride , it works, but it is difficult to dissolve in water (must be slowly heated many times). However, we want to use the purest forms of these compounds we can find. The Behentriammonium Chloride sold for cosmetics typically is only 30% as it is a mixture with Cetyl alcohol and other ingredients. When using consumer products, always find out what else is in the mix as we don't want to leave residues or otherwise damage the record. That said, people use the 2-n-1 shampoo/conditioner on their records successfully as it contains a detergent with a quat yet there are all kinds of other ingredients in the mix. I am opposed to this as I like to only include active ingredients (though I realize not everyone can obtain them). So the point is you can go ahead and try any of the commercial products mentioned, just do it initially as a test on a undesirable record, rinse very well, and examine very carefully for residues left behind visually (including stylus after playing) and for any audible defects.

1200y3
long player
long player
Posts: 2957
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 13:43
Location: regina,sk

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by 1200y3 » 31 Dec 2016 16:01

I used Simple Green Original formula, I think diluted 1 oz to 1 gallon, 25 years ago and to this day the records seem cleaner than all my others. Otherwise the wood glue or Elvanol treatment is my favorite. But mold is a bit different than other contaminants, and sometimes fresh bleach is the most practical way to attack mold. But Simple Green is a great wetting agent.

tom6to1
member
member
Canada
Posts: 201
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 18:09
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by tom6to1 » 31 Dec 2016 19:29

vince1 wrote:Either quat will work as both have surfactant structure (long carbon tails, polar heads) and both anti-stat and biocidal properties. I have tested Behentriammonium Chloride , it works, but it is difficult to dissolve in water (must be slowly heated many times). However, we want to use the purest forms of these compounds we can find. The Behentriammonium Chloride sold for cosmetics typically is only 30% as it is a mixture with Cetyl alcohol and other ingredients. When using consumer products, always find out what else is in the mix as we don't want to leave residues or otherwise damage the record. That said, people use the 2-n-1 shampoo/conditioner on their records successfully as it contains a detergent with a quat yet there are all kinds of other ingredients in the mix. I am opposed to this as I like to only include active ingredients (though I realize not everyone can obtain them). So the point is you can go ahead and try any of the commercial products mentioned, just do it initially as a test on a undesirable record, rinse very well, and examine very carefully for residues left behind visually (including stylus after playing) and for any audible defects.
Thanks for the advise. Since (I think) the ADBAC probably has no other ingredients but water (it is for use in a swimming pool after all), I am going to give that a try. I will write again with how well it works when mixed in with the Triton X-100, etc...

ilyavictoria
member
member
Posts: 84
Joined: 26 Feb 2015 04:02

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by ilyavictoria » 06 Jan 2017 04:19

What about Sporicidine?

johnny q
member
member
Posts: 131
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 20:53

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by johnny q » 07 Jan 2017 14:24

A buddy of mine gave me a stack of records from a basement flood. They all had mold on the vinyl - in a big way. First, I used a typical home brew fluid (distilled water, alcohol, drop of Dawn) with a mofi brush in both directions. Then I rinsed the remaining fluid in my sink. Then, I did another pass with the Mofi brush but this time using MOFI One cleaning fluid. Same deal and same rinse in the sink. Finally, I ran them through a Spin Clean using the traditional method outlined in the instructions. Of course, grungy inner sleeve was replaced with a MOFI.

The results? These records look mint! And sound wonderful too.

Peter Galbavy
senior member
senior member
Posts: 629
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 16:53

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by Peter Galbavy » 09 Jan 2017 15:30

I've cleaned quite a few random purchases with sporadic mould distributions on with just the normal homebrew mix (80/20+Ilfotol) on my Clearaudio Dual Matrix Pro RCM and the parts that the brushes reach are pristine. Sadly the last 2-3mm of the lead out isn't quite done so it sometimes gets a manual clean with a cloth if it's noticeable.

RobbieG
junior member
junior member
Posts: 9
Joined: 14 Jan 2009 22:20
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by RobbieG » 04 Feb 2018 16:56

vince1 wrote:I use Hepastat256
Hi Vince. I've been doing a lot of research on cleaning records, and you bring a lot of good information and insight into the conversation. I've read a lot of what you've posted with recommendations on ingredients and processes for DIY cleaning solutions, but I have yet to find an all inclusive start to finish recipe. I found an old link you posted for a recipe, but that link is now dead ( http://sites.google.com/site/vincesaudiofiles ). Is your current recommendation something like this?:
  • 50 mls 99% isopropyl alcohol
  • 1 ml Triton X-100
  • 0.4 ml Hepastat 256
  • 948.6 mL distilled/deionized water
Do you need to "pre-dilute" the triton (e.g. add 1 mL water and mix, add another 1/10/100 mL and mix, etc)? Can you post a step-by-step?

The reason I ask, I have ~400 records I need to clean that were my fathers, ~100 of which had water damage many years ago and have dried mold on parts of the jackets and records themselves.

My plan was to:
  • Rinsing each record under running tap water to get the gross debris off
  • Use a MoFi brush with your cleaning solution to wash each record
  • Purchase a RCM such as the KAB EV-1 to vaccuum dry the record
  • Allow to air dry a little longer in a drying rack
  • Put the record into a new sleeve (probably from sleeve city)
  • Spray the affected areas of record jackets with a normal cleaning dilution of Hepastat and allow to dry
  • Put the newly sleeved record back into the original jacket
  • Put the dried jacket into an outer sleeve
I would consider looking into an ultrasonic cleaning setup, but I don't want to get too out of hand with costs. I'm open to suggestions, though, on the cleaning method I posted above or other options.

Thanks!

Robbie G

RobbieG
junior member
junior member
Posts: 9
Joined: 14 Jan 2009 22:20
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by RobbieG » 09 Apr 2018 23:11

Going to give this a bump since it's been 2 months. Curious in Vince1's and other's input.

Also, with the unavailability of Hepastat 256 in my area, looking at using Simple Green D Pro 3 instead: https://simplegreen.com/industrial/products/d-pro-3/
RobbieG wrote:
vince1 wrote:I use Hepastat256
Hi Vince. I've been doing a lot of research on cleaning records, and you bring a lot of good information and insight into the conversation. I've read a lot of what you've posted with recommendations on ingredients and processes for DIY cleaning solutions, but I have yet to find an all inclusive start to finish recipe. I found an old link you posted for a recipe, but that link is now dead ( http://sites.google.com/site/vincesaudiofiles ). Is your current recommendation something like this?:
  • 50 mls 99% isopropyl alcohol
  • 1 ml Triton X-100
  • 0.4 ml Hepastat 256
  • 948.6 mL distilled/deionized water
Do you need to "pre-dilute" the triton (e.g. add 1 mL water and mix, add another 1/10/100 mL and mix, etc)? Can you post a step-by-step?

The reason I ask, I have ~400 records I need to clean that were my fathers, ~100 of which had water damage many years ago and have dried mold on parts of the jackets and records themselves.

My plan was to:
  • Rinsing each record under running tap water to get the gross debris off
  • Use a MoFi brush with your cleaning solution to wash each record
  • Purchase a RCM such as the KAB EV-1 to vaccuum dry the record
  • Allow to air dry a little longer in a drying rack
  • Put the record into a new sleeve (probably from sleeve city)
  • Spray the affected areas of record jackets with a normal cleaning dilution of Hepastat and allow to dry
  • Put the newly sleeved record back into the original jacket
  • Put the dried jacket into an outer sleeve
I would consider looking into an ultrasonic cleaning setup, but I don't want to get too out of hand with costs. I'm open to suggestions, though, on the cleaning method I posted above or other options.

Thanks!

Robbie G

tom6to1
member
member
Canada
Posts: 201
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 18:09
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by tom6to1 » 10 Apr 2018 03:42

Hi Robbie G. There is no perfect formula for a cleaning fluid (and everyone keeps trying to make whatever they have better). I have been following vince1's advise and it sounds logical and reasonable. I would go ahead with the formula and process you have listed and not let the perfect be the enemy of "good enough". I don't use a vacuum drying method (yet) but have cleaned many records with: 1) a rinse, followed by 2) a paint pad to apply an enzyme cleaner, 3) then a further rinse and 4) run through the spin clean 5) wipe down with micro-fiber cloth and air dry. I may skip the enzyme step for a record that looks pretty clean to start with. Enzyme cleaner is just a capsule of "digestive enzymes" dissolved in water. You can purchase the capsules at any health food store. Typically full of enzymes that dissolve proteins (e.g.: bromelein), lipids, and other crud. I got the idea from a post elsewhere from vince1. Great for getting really bad greasy fingerprints and other stubborn dirt out and works on problems the Spin Clean and its detergent won't remove. Once I run through the Spin Clean detergent, I will be mixing-up a batch of cleaner using the formula above.

I have probably cleaned 500 records this way with good results. Good luck with your records.

vince1
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 212
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 16:32

Re: Cleaning moldy records?

Post by vince1 » 10 Apr 2018 04:46

RobbieG wrote:Going to give this a bump since it's been 2 months. Curious in Vince1's and other's input.

Also, with the unavailability of Hepastat 256 in my area, looking at using Simple Green D Pro 3 instead: https://simplegreen.com/industrial/products/d-pro-3/

Robbie G
[/quote]

Sorry Robbie, I missed this earlier. Yes, the recipe you posted previously is similar to what I and many others have had success with. Your protocol looks similar as well, but I always include a final dH20 wash step before drying to make sure there is no residue left behind. As far as the Simple Green Pro, it looks good, but a little less concentrated (in quats) so you will be diluting less but it should work. Have you tried it on a common lp yet? Please post your results.

Tom, be careful with the Spinclean and DIY solutions. The device relies on precipitation of contaminants at the bottom of the tank so their solution contains a flocculant. If you make your own, you have to add this (e.g. ammonium sulfate) to get the most out of the device. While some quats can act as floculants, most folks seem to get better results using vacuum based devices.