Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

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vince1
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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by vince1 » 07 Dec 2016 03:09

spatafore wrote:
cmarti wrote:
spatafore wrote:
We can ATTRIBUTE this issues to this topic?????
I think is the same thing that everyone experiment here and the key is the heat, maybe in the plane or the warehouses with heating can cause this damage on discs even with NO PVC.
This issues on pics was caused during the ship From Australia to USA FLORIDA
That's my theory, this happens to me 4 times (two from Australia, Spain and USA) by the way, the USA to USA issue the package was lost and recovery takes 1 month on arrive, so again the package maybe suffer a lot heat.

what do you think guys?

thanks.
Quite interesting spatafore. What cleaning methods have you tried so far on these? The spotted contaminants really look more like fungal colonies more than anything else (as they are round and appear above the surface). Abrasion or simple sleeve contact wouldn't produce such a uniform effect. I would wash well (RCM, US or paint pad) with a 1:500 dilution of Hepastat 256 (available from Amazon or Staples) and see what remains before resorting to the extreme and, quite frankly obscene, measures I've seen in this thread.

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by spatafore » 07 Dec 2016 04:13

spatafore wrote: Are you sure that wasn't caused by abrasion?
abrasion? like scratchs, scrapes on the record? something like this: http://www.analogplanet.com/images/styl ... k=80Zo3PER ???

if you response is YES, my answer is NO, actually this records are totally mint, I even think unplayed, that is the sad part, the records will damaged in just one travel from Australia to USA.

I think that is heating because I have other record that takes 22 days or more to arrive to me from Spain, that record was sealed (but with some side open, you know an old new stock record not in mint condition), when I open the record well first very very warped! and the texture is not like matte ghost example, is TOO shiny, so again Warp mean heat! so I think all records with this issues suffer heating.

Actually I remember make a test! I take a crappy single and put in the ceiling of my house exposed to the sun, of course after some hours the disc warp! but that is obvious... the thing that I want test is if the heat add that ghost texture and yes! some parts have that ghost texture and some parts don't. I think I send the disc to trash but maybe I can do the test again to take pictures to this forum.

spatafore
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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by spatafore » 07 Dec 2016 04:23

Quite interesting spatafore. What cleaning methods have you tried so far on these? The spotted contaminants really look more like fungal colonies more than anything else (as they are round and appear above the surface). Abrasion or simple sleeve contact wouldn't produce such a uniform effect. I would wash well (RCM, US or paint pad) with a 1:500 dilution of Hepastat 256 (available from Amazon or Staples) and see what remains before resorting to the extreme and, quite frankly obscene, measures I've seen in this thread.
Believe me this are not fungal colonies, I had other records with fungal/mold... and that is so easy to remove even with just pass the finger (of course a finger don't clean well, we need a RCM and liquids ect... but you got my point). This this is not removable with my finger or with water, this this looks permanent.

I still don't une anything because I still don't have a RCM but I hope soon buy one, but I'm 100% sure that this is not removable easily.

This thread catch me, why? because I buy hard to find records imported from Europe or Australia and I'm sick! of get this problem, is like a lotto, some arrive fine, some don't. So! I will take BETTER pictures soon, to illustrate more the topic, sadly I have some examples.

To me this 2 kind of issues:

1. Ghosting: https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o17 ... dvinyl.jpg yes like that pic, the record turns like an opaque texture tending to white more than pure black.

2. Too Shiny: Records looks too shiny like melt wax (I show pics soon, but maybe is hard show that in pics), I have some warp records with this shiny texture.

I think both are caused by PVC or for heating.

Blackout-
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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by Blackout- » 22 Dec 2016 10:44

1:/ when the inner Poly sleeve is old, i mean 30 years or more, and there is heat added as well, you can get misting in a very short time without any kind of PVC outside cover. But it does not happen for all Poly sleeves. It is just for certain ones that break down over time. Some do not break down. The good news is that the misting can generally be removed easier if you catch it faster. I caught a record in the process of "misting" one time when it arrived from the US (an order from Discogs). It was covered in a milky white substance that smeared as i rubbed it (it was an old US Disconet vinyl). I cleaned it perfectly and put it back in the same poly sleeve. A week later it was creamy again! The very old poly sleeve from 1979 was the culprit, it was breaking down. If i had not caught it, the misting would have been permanent.

2:/ when the outer PVC cover is old, and has bubbled (ie no longer smooth but looks crinkled and brittle) then the record can be misted inside. The soft element of the PVC cover "leaks" out of it. It does not matter about heat. It does not matter about a paper inner or Poly bag inner. It is the PVC outer cover fumes that are doing the misting. It will even "fume" through the cardboard cover of the next record beside it on the shelf, and mist the ONE SIDE of that other record that is against it on the shelf! (I have many records that are misted on one side, perfectly shiny on the other. They were too close to a PVC cover on the shelf.) I believe that the cardboard covers do help to stop the fumes going through to the record somewhat. In the US, the cardboard covers are a dense, white "artboard" and the fumes have a hard time going through. In Australia, all our cardboard covers were made from cheap, soft brown speckled cardboard. Less dense. The PVC fumes travel easier and faster through it to the record. Also, i believe, the PVC covers made in Australia were particularly nasty, full of "fumes" and have added to the problem.

This is my current take on the problem.
Cheers,
Blackout

cmarti
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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by cmarti » 22 Dec 2016 16:08

Blackout- wrote: This is my current take on the problem.
Cheers,
Blackout
Great insight, thank you!

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by davidsss » 23 Dec 2016 13:09

I'd have to agree that the PVC covers we used to get in Aus were cheap and nasty. Whenever I pull out a record with one of those old PVC covers I chuck out the cover and replace it with a new outer cover, the softer plastic ones available now.

DS

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by internetkevin » 31 Dec 2016 23:49

https://s30.postimg.org/nlu6n93jl/IMG_2 ... 184025.jpg
I've been lurking on this one for a few weeks—keeping tabs on the problem, possible solutions, and even more confusing possible causes. And now I have some input of my own to add (although I feel Blackout has a solid grasp on the culprit). This image was taken on a recent record I bought shipped from the UK—the poly sleeve pictured was enclosed in another, thicker PVC-based bag. The outer PVC was a little smelly and yellowed, but itself not warped. The inner bag (pictured) was the only warped element here—record was in standard paper and shows no signs of ghosting.

PS. Happy new year everyone!

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by dohdeh » 11 Mar 2017 23:15

Hello from Greece! I'll try not to tire you and have as small a post as I can.

I've been collecting vinyl records since the early 90s and got 2 MK2 1210s from the 80s still in mint condition. I stumbled upon this forum through YouTube to download a protractor and was carrying along my business.
About a week ago I went crate digging at a record store and started talking with the store owner, and I wanted some outer sleeves to protect my records. I noticed that he had some really shiny and thin ones and some blurry ones. Not the PVC hard outer sleeves I was always getting.
I say to him "don't you have the hard ones?" and he replies "Do NOT get those. They destroy your records". I saw he was serious and I said to him that it cant be the case. I said that all these years i've been getting the PVC hard ones for all my records and he told me to check it out by myself on my records and on Google that this "disease" is real.
I came home and started checking all my vinyls.... :( :shock: #-o
Many of them became "foggy" like the pictures in this thread show... and I can hear a "hiss".
I started searching through Google and stumbled again in this here forum.

From what I understand no one really knows what causes this "disease" 100%.
But from what I saw the "disease" on my vinyls was random, i.e. either there were on paper inner sleeve or plastic one it didn't matter. It seems to occur on both conditions. In any case I believe too that the hard PVC outer sleeve is always the catalyst.
I got a vinyl that i haven't played in 15 years in hard PVC outer and it looks and sound perfect with no disease at all, but another one I got for 5 years only and haven't played at all is all foggy :(
I don't get it... why did it occur on the 5 year old record but not on the 15 year old one???!

I will post some pictures in a bit of the hard PVC outer sleeves I was getting and of the new blurry ones that the record store guy sold me. He said that they were plastic, not PVC and I would really appreciate your advice from you guys here if the new plastic blurry ones the guy sold me are good..

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by dohdeh » 20 Mar 2017 13:57

These first ones are the ones I have all my vinyl (it's the oldschool hard PVC ones) that destroy the vinyl

https://s7.postimg.org/fsyir9psb/IMG_0226.pngfree image uploading
https://s7.postimg.org/gwin38aff/IMG_0227.pngfree image uploading

And these are the new soft "foggy" ones that the guy at the record store said are good ones and are made of plastic and dont destroy the vinyl

https://s7.postimg.org/yb2vbi7kb/IMG_0230.pngfree image uploading
https://s7.postimg.org/mahfas05n/IMG_0231.pngfree image uploading

So tell me your opinion guys if these new "foggy" ones are ok, because I dont want to spend a fortune on them and not be good for my records, cause I need about 700 of them....
I'll be waiting! Thanks!!

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by dohdeh » 20 Mar 2017 20:26

No one? Nothing? Nada?

cmarti
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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by cmarti » 20 Mar 2017 20:32

dohdeh wrote:No one? Nothing? Nada?
I use the foggy ones with no issues, the problem is the PVC ones.

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by dohdeh » 20 Mar 2017 22:41

thank you :)

the really thin ones are too expensive compared to the foggy ones, and I feel they protect the outer cover a bit better.

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by cmarti » 20 Mar 2017 23:27

dohdeh wrote:thank you :)

the really thin ones are too expensive compared to the foggy ones, and I feel they protect the outer cover a bit better.
I buy them from my local flea market, at about 10 cents a piece so it's really cheap.

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by dohdeh » 21 Mar 2017 11:48

[/quote] I buy them from my local flea market, at about 10 cents a piece so it's really cheap.[/quote]

I will probably go today to buy and I will inform about the exact pricing.
Thanks again 8)

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Re: Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl - Merged Thread

Post by dohdeh » 26 Mar 2017 17:48

Best price I dound was 0.21$ per piece. But that's ok..
The damage is already done to my records :?
At least it's not all of them.

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