You lost me !

how clean is your house
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georgesgiralt
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You lost me !

Post by georgesgiralt » 06 Jun 2019 18:50

Hello
It has been a few days now that I read a lot of posts about ultrasonic cleaner.
I'm totally lost.
What I understood is that I would use a mixture made from some sort of distilled water (the same used on pressing ironing) and some surfactant onto which I could add isopropyl alcohol.
For the surfactant, I've read that I could use Triton X 100 or "Tergitol" But the Triton X 100 has an MSDS which drives me out ... And Tergitol in France comes with a lot of variant (Tergitol 7, Tergitol NP40, ...) As I'm not a chemist, I can't choose.... So here I need you help.
About the Isopropyl Alcohol I would like to know if it is _really_needed and if yes, how much should I use ?
Then, I've the problem of getting the chemicals ;-) And during cleaning the use of filtration or not...
All in all a lot of questions and un-certainties ... :?
help, please !

AsOriginallyRecorded
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Re: You lost me !

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 06 Jun 2019 19:35

Greetings! Unfortunately, as you are discovering, there are as many viewpoints and methods as regards record cleaning as there are members it seems. Everyone has a slightly different take on the topic. Generally, everyone tends to fall into 4 or 5 camps, from simple and inexpensive to cost no object, hands off systems costing thousands, such as ultra-sound systems. Given a great enough expenditure of funds, there is generally more praise for the more complex systems as one would expect. On the other hand, and probably the majority of hobbyists here use considerably less expensive method and materials with great satisfaction. One must decide how deep into the wallet they wish to go, and often with diminishing returns along the way.
I fall into the hands on, brush wash, rinse and dry camp, and cannot fathom the advantage of anything more complicated and expensive. The manufacturers of both records and turntables did not envision such an need either I would note. Distilled water and 90% isopropyl alcohol mixes are generally used in a 4 to 1 ratio, often with a drop or two of quality clear detergent, and a few drops of something like dishwasher rinse (surfactant). Used by countless happy audiophiles with no problems. The alcohol not necessary other than when cleaning a dirty album of surface contaminants...simple distilled water misting, wipe with micro fibre cloth or carbon brush thereafter. Most machines available will make recommendations as to solutions to use. Commercially available are fine if the cost is not a factor, but this was never meant to be "rocket science", and there are many viable alternatives before you get into photo development chemicals and ultra-sonics. My point of view, one of thousands....hope it is of some help. But yes, quite easy to get lost in all the often long winded discussions and rants. Bon chance.... :)

georgesgiralt
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Re: You lost me !

Post by georgesgiralt » 07 Jun 2019 08:23

Well, thank you for your answer...
As I have a use for the US cleaner, why not use it for cleaning my old records which need it ? I have some bought when I was in high school and college that will need a bath to say the least ;-)
I would like to know what kind of Tergitol I should use just to see if I can find it in France.
Have a nice day

vince1
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Re: You lost me !

Post by vince1 » 08 Jun 2019 01:11

Typically, Tergitol 15-S-7 is used, or a mix of 15-S-3 and 15-S-9. You can also just use Triton X-100. Not sure why you would be afraid of it.

georgesgiralt
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Re: You lost me !

Post by georgesgiralt » 08 Jun 2019 16:06

Well from the MDSDS ... (Triton x-100 is an APEO. It is severely toxic to aquatic systems and behaves as an endocrine disruptor to humans. So wear safety gloves, a face mask and work in a well ventilated area. As to how to dispose off the effluents is another story entirely.;

vince1
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Re: You lost me !

Post by vince1 » 12 Jun 2019 02:32

Please, from the MSDS on ethanol:
Potential Health Effects
Eye: Causes severe eye irritation. May cause painful sensitization to light. May cause chemical conjunctivitis and corneal damage.
Skin: Causes moderate skin irritation. May cause cyanosis of the extremities.
Ingestion: May cause gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. May cause systemic toxicity with acidosis. May cause central nervous system depression, characterized by excitement, followed by headache, dizziness, drowsiness, and nausea. Advanced stages may cause collapse, unconsciousness, coma and possible death due to respiratory failure.
Inhalation: Inhalation of high concentrations may cause central nervous system effects characterized by nausea, headache, dizziness, unconsciousness and coma. Causes respiratory tract irritation. May cause narcotic effects in high concentration. Vapors may cause dizziness or suffocation.
Chronic: May cause reproductive and fetal effects. Laboratory experiments have resulted in mutagenic effects. Animal studies have reported the development of tumors. Prolonged exposure may cause liver, kidney, and heart damage.


Possible death and Mutagenic...as in Cancer?? OMG...people actually drink this stuff? Relax, have a beer! By comparison, Triton is simply a mild non-ionic detergent. You shower daily with way harsher detergents...look some of them up (especially Lauryl sulfate = sodium dodecyl sulfate) just for fun.

georgesgiralt
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Re: You lost me !

Post by georgesgiralt » 12 Jun 2019 06:31

Yes, I know, but in the shower, I'm not dealing with the 100 % pure stuff. (And I only use plain soap, not liquid shower bath).
I think I'll stick with Tween 20 instead of Triton X100 (or Tergitol which I can't find easily in France).

SpruceMoose
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Re: You lost me !

Post by SpruceMoose » 29 Sep 2019 23:27

I presume you know you are not supposed to bathe in it or drink it, just put a few drops in the tank... :wink:

Sometimes I’m surprised we don’t get MSDS sheets with distilled water. CAUTION: Avoid prolonged dermal exposure. Causes wrinkles. Do not inhale. Causes drowning.

vince1
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Re: You lost me !

Post by vince1 » 30 Sep 2019 01:11

Well, just for the record, the EU is set to ban all octylphenol ethoxylate detergents like Triton X in new products next year as there is evidence that they negatively effect aquatic environments. Biodegradation produces a toxic aromatic hydrocarbon product (from the released octylphenol group) that mimics estrogen and messes with reproductive systems of fish. That said, they will still be available in N. America. I would use Tergitol 15-S-7 (Pareth-7) as a substitute in Europe.

chgc
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Re: You lost me !

Post by chgc » 01 Oct 2019 00:50

I think the ultrasonic cleaner does most of the work, however I haven’t tried cleaning records with just water. I have, however, used dish soap, rubbing alcohol and tap water at various times, with results that have been satisfactory to me. Why not start with records you aren’t very attached to and experiment with different methods? Using mild, inexpensive ingredients, the potential downside is minimal, in my opinion. And I believe filtration is only worth bothering with if you have a lot of records to clean.

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