Page 1 of 2

Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 21 Jan 2019 16:45
by mark79
Hello All: What is the dilution of Ilfotol in distilled water and iso. alcohol to clean records. I've seen 2.5 mL per 500mL. I know that you have to use more of it when cleaning records than when it is used for photographic use. I really like the Ilfotol, it adds a certain amount of anti-static properties to the record. I have a Spin Clean and it is a one step process that really works quite well. I have the cleaner that came with it, but I don't know what's in it. It does work well but there's no alcohol in it. I prefer adding a little alcohol in anything I mix, especially in second hand record store finds. I'm finding that I prefer the Ilfotol over the Triton X-100. If you use too much Triton, you basically have to start from scratch. It's a little tricky. I.ve also seen articles where people have also added Dawn to cleaning recipes. Any comments or advice would really be appreciated. There are so many ideas out there. I've also seen one using Jet-Dry. Thanks; Regards; Mark79

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 21 Jan 2019 17:23
by bernard1
One or two drops of dish washing detergent in demineralized water has the same effect and is way cheaper.

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 21 Jan 2019 18:02
by circularvibes
bernard1 wrote:
21 Jan 2019 17:23
One or two drops of dish washing detergent in demineralized water has the same effect and is way cheaper.
Not all dish washing liquid is equal and Ilfotol handles static. My mix is 4 liters (1 gallon) distilled water, 5 ml (1 tsp) Ilfotol, a light squeeze of Sunlight dish soap, 500 ml (2 cups) 99% isopropyl alcohol, a few drops of Gain laundry detergent (for mold) and about 5 drops of Jet Dry. It may be overkill, but I am happy and as I reuse a laundry soap jug, I get a spigot and 6 months worth of cleaning fluid. I refill old Nitty Gritty bottles.

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 01:12
by mark79
Thank-You circularvibes. I will make a note of that. I read that someone used 2.5mL for 500ml or 1 pint. Is that too much? Thanks; Regards; Mark79

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 01:41
by Sunwire
I have used:
800 mL distilled water
200 mL 90% Isopropyl alcohol
5 mL Ilfotol

After reading dozens of posts about various formulas, this is the one I settled on. It seemed to be recommended by the people who had the best background in relevant chemistry.

I haven't tried a lot of other formulas, but it seems to work OK. No residue left behind that I have noticed.

But I have switched to an ultrasonic machine that uses proprietary cleaning solution.

I will use straight 90% Isopropyl alcohol for removing fingerprints or other gunk. If I don't, the fingerprint residue will not be completely cleaned by the more dilute solution I described at the top or by the ultrasonic machine.

My regimen:
1) blow off any loose dust using a can of compressed air.
2) if there is significant dust or dirt visible on the record, I will wipe it with a paper towel wetted with my cleaning solution
3) if there are visible fingerprints on the record surface, I will clean them off using 90% isopropyl alcohol on a paper towel
4) I always wipe around the edge of the record with a paper towel wetted with isopropyl alcohol, since the outer edge pretty much always has some fingerprint residue on it.

5) Then I quickly follow with the cleaning cycle in the ultrasonic machine.

I don't want to put a visibly really dirty record into my ultrasonic machine, since that dirt may contaminate the cleaning solution in the machine.

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 01:48
by Sunwire
p.s.: As I understand it, Ilfotol is acting as a surfactant. It breaks the surface tension of the water so the water can more easily enter deep into record grooves. It also helps water flow off the record without creating droplets that stay in place.
Dish soap, laundry detergent, and Jet Dry are all used to do the same thing as Ilfotol. I don't see any point in using any of those things in addition to Ilfotol. Ilfotol is recommended because it has no other additives like coloring or fragrance or other crap that may leave residue on your records. Ilfotol was created for use on photographic film where residue would be a real problem.

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 05:52
by DT999
Sunwire wrote:
22 Jan 2019 01:41
I have used:
800 mL distilled water
200 mL 90% Isopropyl alcohol
5 mL Ilfotol
My mix is very similar but made up for convenience of measurement as the only Isopropyl alcohol I have been able to find is 99% in 250ml spray bottles for electronics work. Distilled water comes in 5L containers, so I use:

1L distilled water
250 mL 99% Isopropyl
5 ml Ilfotol

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 09:05
by davidsss
DT999, I have found 4 litre bottles of isopropyl, I think it might have been Alronics in North Melbourne. I had to order a bottle but you should be able to get decent bottles of isopropyl in Aus.

DS

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 10:22
by Pauw
bernard1 wrote:
21 Jan 2019 17:23
One or two drops of dish washing detergent in demineralized water has the same effect and is way cheaper.
Quite correct ...all the other "magical" mixtures ....are just magical ...and although there are great claims .....non can really be backed by evidence. :D

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 10:47
by DT999
davidsss wrote:
22 Jan 2019 09:05
DT999, I have found 4 litre bottles of isopropyl, I think it might have been Alronics in North Melbourne. I had to order a bottle but you should be able to get decent bottles of isopropyl in Aus.

DS
Thank DS I'll check that out, I've only been able to find it in Jaycar

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 17:20
by circularvibes
Sunwire wrote:
22 Jan 2019 01:48
p.s.: As I understand it, Ilfotol is acting as a surfactant. It breaks the surface tension of the water so the water can more easily enter deep into record grooves. It also helps water flow off the record without creating droplets that stay in place.
Dish soap, laundry detergent, and Jet Dry are all used to do the same thing as Ilfotol. I don't see any point in using any of those things in addition to Ilfotol. Ilfotol is recommended because it has no other additives like coloring or fragrance or other crap that may leave residue on your records. Ilfotol was created for use on photographic film where residue would be a real problem.
You are partially correct. It also controls static as it is designed to do. You do not want static attracting more dust to the negative or you have wasted time using Ilfotol. That is why I chose it over Kodak products such as Triton X-100 or Photo-Flo. It is also more easily found and cheaper here in Canada.

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 18:06
by Pauw
Perhaps ....before a lot of claims are made for the things in this thread ....this might be useful reading............................https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves ... ing_Agents

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 22 Jan 2019 18:15
by cafe_liegeois
circularvibes wrote:
22 Jan 2019 17:20
That is why I chose it over Kodak products such as Triton X-100 or Photo-Flo. It is also more easily found and cheaper here in Canada.
I've been using Mirasol by Tetenal for film, glossy baryta prints and record cleaning for many years. Don't know if it's available across the pond, though.

https://www.theimagingwarehouse.com/Pro ... al-Mirasol

Ralf

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 23 Jan 2019 01:36
by vince1
You do realize that the surfactant in Ilfotol is identical to Tergitol to Triton X-100 yes? Oh, except you pay a huge premium for packaging, labeling, marketing, and the toxic isothiazole preservative in a hugely diluted preparation. They don't specify which alcohol ethoxylate is in their solution, but these are the most common and surely used. There isn't anything magic here, and certainly no marketing you should be falling for. Furthermore, there is nothing materially similar to photographic film and phonographic records so products marketed for one application are not optimized for the other. Detergent, surfactant, wetting agent, emulsifier, cleaner, degreaser....don't be fooled by marketing terms for the same thing.

Re: Ilfotol Wetting Agent

Posted: 23 Jan 2019 02:31
by DT999
vince1 wrote:
23 Jan 2019 01:36
You do realize that the surfactant in Ilfotol is identical to Tergitol to Triton X-100 yes? Oh, except you pay a huge premium for packaging, labeling, marketing, and the toxic isothiazole preservative in a hugely diluted preparation. They don't specify which alcohol ethoxylate is in their solution, but these are the most common and surely used. There isn't anything magic here, and certainly no marketing you should be falling for. Furthermore, there is nothing materially similar to photographic film and phonographic records so products marketed for one application are not optimized for the other. Detergent, surfactant, wetting agent, emulsifier, cleaner, degreaser....don't be fooled by marketing terms for the same thing.
I have only been able to source Triton X-100 on line from scientific and laboratory suppliers here, 500ML is over AU$48, so Ilfotol is more cost affective. I guess it depends where you live and availability of specific products.