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vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby sunderwood » 01 Jul 2018 04:33

I purchased a bottle of vinyl care solutions super enzyme record cleaner from a dealer on ebay. The reviews are good and it does seem to do a good job. It comes in a 2oz jar and you mix it at 1 oz per gallon of distilled water. I use a 16 oz spray bottle which figures out to be 3/4 tsp of cleaner. My first bottle I mixed back in April. When I first mixed it the solution was clear, but tonight I noticed it had some fuzzy dark crud floating around in it. My first guess is that it is mold. I filtered it through a paper towel and got it back clear again. I use a vpi rcm and always rinse with distilled water. If this is mold could it harm my records as long as I rinse? Is there something I could put in the solution to keep it from forming?
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby ripblade » 02 Jul 2018 20:13

Once mixed, the enzymes are good for only a couple of hours. Mix only what you will use within that time period.

What you see could be mold, or it could be decaying enzyme proteins. Either way, it's useless at best.

BTW, you can save yourself a small fortune if you buy a bottle of Sporicidin. It's probably the same stuff.
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby sunderwood » 02 Jul 2018 23:04

I clean records as I buy them which means I only clean one or two at the time. It is not practical to try to mix that small an amount. Where did you read that about an enzymatic record cleaner being good for only two hours after it is mixed? Mobile Fidelity also makes an enzymatic cleaner. The dealers like music direct who sell it keep some in stock to ship and it comes to them from mobile fidelity already mixed and sealed in the bottle. Add to that the time it takes for it to get from the dealer to the customer. If an enzymatic cleaner is only good for two hours after it is mixed then it would mean that they are selling a product that is no good. To my question I am seeing black spots on the inside of the bottle so I feel sure I have mold and I think I may know what has happened. Before I was using this cleaner I was using L'art du son. It cleans well, but after a while mold starts to form. Others have noticed this in postings on this site. The bottle I am using for this cleaner is the same as I was using for the L'art du son. I thought I had cleaned the bottle out, but I may have missed some small spots and it started to grow again after I put this other cleaner in it.
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby ripblade » 03 Jul 2018 19:30

sunderwood wrote: Where did you read that about an enzymatic record cleaner being good for only two hours after it is mixed?

It's on the back of the Sporicidin bottle under directions for use. Plus, this was confirmed to me by an aminologist who's payed very well to know this stuff. In its concentrated form, the pH is too high (or too low...I forget) for the enzymes to become viable. Once diluted with water in the correct proportion, they become viable and begin to break down the tissues they target....including the proteins they're made of....hence, the 2 hour window.

Besides, has it occurred to you why there would be mold growing in a bottle of enzymes that are intended to break down and destroy mold tissue, if the enzymes are still viable?

As to the commercial preparations...no comment, but I have the Walker record cleaner kit, which includes a bottle of enzymes in powder form. Expensive stuff (it was a gift)...and it's probably just papain or bromelain lol.
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby Pauw » 03 Jul 2018 20:48

Ripblade........what is an "an aminologist""? I have searched the internet......no result for this or even a word "an aminologist"....... :D
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby ripblade » 03 Jul 2018 21:28

Pauw wrote:Ripblade........what is an "an aminologist""? I have searched the internet......no result for this or even a word "an aminologist"....... :D

Yes, it's a pretty cryptic title. There are references to it on the web but they are scarce. I believe he specializes in a branch of the health sciences that deals with the treatment of diseases.

Sorry I can't be more Help. I know he works in a hospital, but I'll have to ask him for more details next time I see him.
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby sunderwood » 03 Jul 2018 22:22

ripblade wrote:
sunderwood wrote: Where did you read that about an enzymatic record cleaner being good for only two hours after it is mixed?

It's on the back of the Sporicidin bottle under directions for use. Plus, this was confirmed to me by an aminologist who's payed very well to know this stuff. In its concentrated form, the pH is too high (or too low...I forget) for the enzymes to become viable. Once diluted with water in the correct proportion, they become viable and begin to break down the tissues they target....including the proteins they're made of....hence, the 2 hour window.

Besides, has it occurred to you why there would be mold growing in a bottle of enzymes that are intended to break down and destroy mold tissue, if the enzymes are still viable?

As to the commercial preparations...no comment, but I have the Walker record cleaner kit, which includes a bottle of enzymes in powder form. Expensive stuff (it was a gift)...and it's probably just papain or bromelain lol.

I am not questioning what is on the back of the sporicidin bottle. I don't know if I have ever even seen any of it. As far as what the stuff is, mold is just a guess on my part. You said you didn't want to comment on the commercial products, so this question is to anyone else who would care to answer. Mobile Fidelity and Audio Intelligent both make a premixed enzymatic record cleaner. It is a good while between the time it is manufactured and the time it gets to the consumer. Based on the 2 hour time period statement are they selling a useless product to the public?
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby piano632 » 04 Jul 2018 22:32

I know some enzymes say their product must be used within a couple hours after mixing, yet Vinyl-Zyme sold by Todd the Vinyl Junkie (formerly Buggtussel) says theirs will stay viable for years. Can't figure out why.
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby sunderwood » 04 Jul 2018 22:40

I am not a chemist, but my first thought is that they are using a stabilizing additive. Any chemists out there that can confirm or deny this?
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby hoolio » 04 Aug 2018 04:45

ripblade wrote:
Pauw wrote:Ripblade........what is an "an aminologist""? I have searched the internet......no result for this or even a word "an aminologist"....... :D

Yes, it's a pretty cryptic title. There are references to it on the web but they are scarce. I believe he specializes in a branch of the health sciences that deals with the treatment of diseases.

Sorry I can't be more Help. I know he works in a hospital, but I'll have to ask him for more details next time I see him.


Does this Help?

http://www.aminologics.com/eng/
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Re: vinyl care solutions enzyme cleaner

Postby vince1 » 07 Aug 2018 13:27

The concentrated enzymes in solution are most likely present at a pH where they are inactive. Proteases like Pepsin are stable at pH 8, but have reduced activity. In nature, you may wonder why a protease wouldn't degrade the very cell or tissue where it is produced. The answer is that many proteases are produced as inactive precursors or "zymogens", where the protein is longer, containing an extended amino acid chain that inhibits enzymatic activity. Subsequent cleavage of this extra bit activates the enzyme. I discovered this first hand in 1986, when I was the first to clone the gene for Papain. To my surprise, I was able to get bacterial cells to produce the protein in huge amounts as it was synthesized in the inactive zymogen form. The pH can also affect enzymatic activity as it can change the conformation or state of the active site and hence activity of the enzyme. The pH activity profile for digestive enzymes has a physiological basis: think about the low pH in your stomach for example, where they are released and need maximal activity to digest food. Here, Pepsin is made as a zymogen (Pepsinogen) by Chief cells that secrete the enzyme into the low pH environment of the stomach which activates the enzyme .
Most proteases are specific, cleaving only between certain amino acid groups. The enzymes themselves often do not contain this target sequence (other than at the junction of the forementioned zymogen extension) to prevent self-degradation. Solutions of mixed proteases will indeed degrade each other which is why a diluted mixture at neutral or acidic pH will not last long. It is much better to start with dried mixes of enzymes (at least for those that are stable) and use them fresh. I published a note a while back demonstrating the use of digestive enzyme pills (sold at drug and health food stores) for cleaning records. The tricks to find one that has a broad range of enzymes (proteases, lipase, amylase) and contains few fillers. You discard the sticky capsule and empty the dried enzymes into your solution. You may be surprised how stable some of these dried enzymes are. They are included in laundry detergents, meat tenderizers, etc. and are quite robust when hydrated. Anyways, there is a scientific basis for using fresh enzymes.
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