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Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proportions

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Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proportions

Postby jdjohn » 25 Apr 2018 15:50

After reading and re-reading several posts about DIY record cleaning solutions (and doing some test runs), I (hopefully) have some proportions that can be shared and used as a reference. Most of my research has been reading posts made by @vince1, so thanks to him for his patience and sharing his knowledge with this group. I have gotten his permission to use his suggestions in this post.

Ingredients:
*Triton X-100 (standard grade...I don't know how many grades exist)
*Hepastat256 (this is the 'Quat', and this product's concentration is what works for my proportions)
*99% Isopropyl alcohol
*Distilled water

I have a Knosti Disco Anti-stat, and the tank holds about 500ml. I use a large Pyrex measuring cup to mix the solution; the measuring cup is graduated for 500ml / 16 fluid oz / 1 Pint / 2 Cups. A smaller measuring cup of about 2 fluid oz / 50-75ml is also needed. And finally, a pipette of 2ml is needed - available at hobby stores and elsewhere.

In the big measuring cup, add the following:
- 25ml of isopropyl alcohol; measure using the smaller cup, and then pour into the large measuring cup.
- 0.75ml of Triton using the pipette; it dissolves quicker in the alcohol than in water, so that's why we add it here; stir it around a bit. Rinse the pipette inside and out - suck water into it and squeeze out several times.
- 0.25ml of Hepastat256. Rinse the pipette again and then set it aside for the next time you need to make a batch.
- Fill the rest of the measuring cup to 500ml with distilled water, and stir.

This yields a solution of 5% isopropyl alcohol, 0.15% Triton X-100, and 0.05% Quat, which appears to be a good concentration for record cleaners like the Knosti, Spin Clean, and others of that design. For an ultrasonic cleaner, use less Triton (0.25ml), so the same amount as the Quat...again this would be for a 500ml batch of cleaning solution. These are percentages vince1 has recommended. Obviously for a liter (1000ml) of solution, you would double everything.

If you want to make a gallon, you can basically X8 everything...ok, really more like X7.5. For those who are mathematically challenged, here are the proportions for making a gallon (you can round up if easier):
- 187.5ml Isopropyl (that's about 6.3 fl oz)
- 5.6ml Triton (too small to convert to fl oz...just use the pipette and keep track of how much you've added)
- 1.9ml Hepastat256

To mix, first pour off about a cup (8 fl oz), or a little more, of distilled water from a gallon jug into a container, and set it aside. This will be the top-off water when ready. Now in a big measuring cup, add the isopropyl alcohol and Triton. Stir to dissolve. Add the Hepastat. Pour this mixture back into the gallon jug, cap and shake to mix. Remove the cap, and top-off the jug with as much water as necessary from what you set aside earlier. It won't take much since you've basically replaced about 8 oz of water with 6.5 oz of cleaning compounds.

If you decide to buy the ingredients and make this, you will quickly find that Hepastat256 comes in bottle sizes of like 64oz and up...you may get lucky and find a 32oz bottle. Using such small amounts of the concentrate per batch of record cleaner, these big bottles of Hepastat would last 5 lifetimes of record cleaning! Luckily, Hepastat256 has another household use as a disinfectant cleaner. It is used in hospitals and restaurants for this purpose. In a 16oz spray bottle, 2ml of Hepastat mixed with water is a good disinfectant cleaner (4ml for a 32oz bottle). It kills a host of bacteria and germs, and is easier/safer than bleach cleaners...although it won't whiten like bleach.

But back to the record cleaning, I rinse the vinyl under running tap water after its bath in the solution, and then let it dry. I have a small fan blowing across my drying rack. After cleaning one batch of records (9 per batch for me), I pour the cleaning solution into a Mason jar and screw the cap on (to control evaporation). After rinsing the tub until there are no suds, I then fill it with distilled water for a rinse cycle of the records. I have found that I can safely use the cleaning solution a second time without much contamination - thus the Mason jar - same for the distilled water rinse - it can be used again as well. For the larger beads of water left on the vinyl after several minutes of drying, I use a waffle-pattern microfiber towel to gently dab/wipe those beads away.

I hope this is helpful, and thanks again to vince1 for his expertise.
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby sturgus » 29 Apr 2018 23:23

Thanks to you and Vince
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby mark79 » 30 Apr 2018 23:29

Dear Sturgis: That information is very good. I don't have a record cleaning machine but I wonder if you would have any suggestions on making that as a no-rinse solution. I have the Triton and even a vial of Tergikleen. In a no-rinse gallon solution, what would be the proportions? Could the Terikleen also be adapted for that? I've got the old Watts Parastat, and the original Discwasher brush. They have been taken care of over the years and look brand new. I was just wondering if any of those could be adapted for a no-rinse. Thank-You very much for your time. Regards; Mark79
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby VinylT » 02 May 2018 20:13

Thanks for the info!

I just ran out of a stock bottle of cleaning fluid and was thinking of making my own.
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby jdjohn » 02 May 2018 21:58

mark79 wrote:Dear Sturgis: That information is very good. I don't have a record cleaning machine but I wonder if you would have any suggestions on making that as a no-rinse solution. I have the Triton and even a vial of Tergikleen. In a no-rinse gallon solution, what would be the proportions? Could the Terikleen also be adapted for that? I've got the old Watts Parastat, and the original Discwasher brush. They have been taken care of over the years and look brand new. I was just wondering if any of those could be adapted for a no-rinse. Thank-You very much for your time. Regards; Mark79

Hi, Mark. I'm not Sturgis (or even sturgus :wink:), but the answer to your question is 'no', none of these can be adapted for a no-rinse solution. I've seen in other threads where you've asked the same question, but the answer is still the same :D

By definition, surfactants/detergents suspend contaminants (dirt, grease, etc.) in solution, and that solution must be rinsed away in order to remove everything from the item being cleaned. Would you wash your clothes or dishes without rinsing the suds away? Of course not. It's the same with cleaning records. If you don't rinse them after cleaning with a detergent, both the detergent and the dirt dry onto the record's surface, leaving a nasty residue. Even though Triton and Tergikleen might not 'suds-up' as much as a household detergent, the principle is still the same.

It might seem that we could change/reduce the cleaning compound proportions to a level where everything simply wipes away clean, but the cleaners lose their effectiveness if not proportioned correctly, so it would be a wasted effort. And it would still have the same ill effects as mentioned above when not rinsed away.

A solution of just water and isopropyl alcohol (or ethanol) would be safe as a no-rinse alternative, but it would only be marginally effective since it is only a solvent, and will not lift and suspend contaminants into solution like a detergent.
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby jdjohn » 02 May 2018 22:11

ADDENDUM TO ORIGINAL POST: Regarding the type of alcohol that can be used, I have learned that ethanol is even more effective than isopropanol, and denatured alcohol should NOT be used for this purpose.
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby mark79 » 08 Jun 2018 21:05

Dear jdjohn: Thank you very much for your reply to the record wipe solution. If I'm making a gallon, how much Everclear do I use or what would you recommend? I have read Laura Osborne's record clearing solution for a gallon, and it says 1 part alcohol to 3 parts distilled water using 1 drop of Triton to break the surface tension of the water. Other articles I've read use 2 drops per gallon. These would all require rinsing afterward? I just wanted to be sure because some articles I've read are very misleading. I very much appreciate your reply. Thanks to you and Vince1, I'll be on the right track. I've read a lot of crazy stuff on record cleaning on the internet. From wood glue, rinse aid to lighter fluid. Thank You for your time; Regards; Mark79
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby jdjohn » 11 Jun 2018 17:02

Hi Mark,

You can substitute Everclear for Isopropyl alcohol in the same proportions as listed above. I don't want to comment on proportions/mixtures suggested by other folks. We have provided a solution here that we are comfortable with, and that works. I recommend you pick a solution (the one here in this thread or another one) and just go with it. You can drive yourself crazy reading all the different options on the internet...none of which will agree with any others...so you just need to pick one that you are comfortable with.

Surfactants do break the surface tension of water, and for the best results, a rinse cycle is needed...or a vacuum. It should not damage anything if you don't rinse, but again, for best results, rinsing is required.

Mark, you seem quite passionate/obsessed with getting a good record cleaning solution. I can relate to that, thus the reason I posted this thread with the proportions, etc. But you seem to be fighting the rinse cycle. If you truly want the best results, you NEED to rinse. Don't fight it! Clearly you want clean records, so just give in to the rinse! :D
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby vince1 » 12 Jun 2018 12:20

I agree with JDJohn 100%. You can’t remove solubilized contaminants without a rinse. Would you wipe your dirty dishes with a soapy sponge then put them away to dry without rinsing with water?
Even with rinsing, a molecular layer of bound surfactant remains on the surface. This is why it is important to choose the proper surfactants.
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby bgad » 12 Jun 2018 14:19

I am awaiting the arrival of the Triton I ordered as well as a Spin-Clean that I plan(ned) to incorporate with my 16.5 in a cleaning routine. I still haven't figured out the exact work flow.

In the interim, I have been washing with a VPI solution and have begun rinsing with Distilled H20 using my 16.5.
The rinse appears to remove the vast majority of the cleaning solution. And cleaning one side at a time certainly simplifies and speeds the process. I don't really see a need for immersion to rinse with the use of the 16.5.
This has been working so well that I am having second thoughts about how or whether to add the SC to the process.

My goal is to spend more time listening than cleaning, no matter how fascinating the process is.
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby vince1 » 12 Jun 2018 15:52

I've said this before, but worth repeating: DIY fluids don't always work well in a Spinclean type device. The reason being is that these systems rely on a flocculant to keep the removed debris at the bottom of the tank. You can formulate a special DIY fluid with a flocculant like dimethyl ammonium chloride, but the system itself is flawed IMHO. They are useful, however, as part of a hand cleaning regime where they are filled with dH20 and used to assist in rinses (after a detergent scrub by hand in a sink or tank). Other than that, I don't recommend them as solubilized contaminants merely get ground back into the records from what we have observed.
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby bgad » 12 Jun 2018 16:07

I was considering the SC for the rinse part of the cycle but it sure is easy to rinse and vacuum on the 16.5
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby vince1 » 12 Jun 2018 17:27

bgad wrote:I was considering the SC for the rinse part of the cycle but it sure is easy to rinse and vacuum on the 16.5

Indeed, with the added benefit of quick drying (with no static-inducing towels!). I have a the HW-17 and love it. Also, if you wash through some quat in your reservoir tank and fluid lines, no mold will grow.
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby bgad » 12 Jun 2018 17:31

vince1 wrote:
bgad wrote:I was considering the SC for the rinse part of the cycle but it sure is easy to rinse and vacuum on the 16.5

Indeed, with the added benefit of quick drying (with no static-inducing towels!). I have a the HW-17 and love it. Also, if you wash through some quat in your reservoir tank and fluid lines, no mold will grow.


That should happen naturally as part of the "wash" cycle. :D
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Re: Triton X-100, Quat, Isopropyl, & Distilled Water Proport

Postby jdjohn » 13 Jun 2018 04:42

Kicking myself now for losing a VPI 16.5 on eBay at a decent price.

For the meantime, I'm still using a Knosti Disco-Antistat in a two-step cleaning process of wash and rinse. I *think* these are natural brush hairs in the Knosti, so perhaps marginally better than velvet/satin/man-made brushes. I do an immediate rinse under tap-water after the wash cycle, and then follow-up afterwards with a separate distilled-water rinse in the Knosti.
I have a fan blowing on the drying rack. I am happy with the results...except that it can't turn turds into tulips :lol: The results of this cleaning process are very revealing...good or bad.
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