Do I need to clean new vinyl?

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Slavikcc
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by Slavikcc » 07 Mar 2018 14:42

In my opinion, it's good practice to clean even new records. Personally, I clean some of my new records due to being subjected to paper dust, static, and other kinds of dust and debris from the pressing plants. Always a good idea to put them into anti-static inner sleeves, like from MoFi, right after a good drying of your wet cleaned records.

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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by JDJX » 07 Mar 2018 16:08

Slavikcc wrote:In my opinion, it's good practice to clean even new records. Personally, I clean some of my new records due to being subjected to paper dust, static, and other kinds of dust and debris from the pressing plants. Always a good idea to put them into anti-static inner sleeves, like from MoFi, right after a good drying of your wet cleaned records.


That is exactly what I said :)

Not for anyone is particular.......
Let's not confuses necessary routine dust removal with (wet) cleaning :)

Peter Galbavy
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by Peter Galbavy » 08 Mar 2018 11:46

I clean every record before I allow it near my TTs. It takes me very little additional resource and it doesn't make anything worse (regardless of what some may claim).

Too many new pressings come with paper (and worse) dust on the surface from poor handling conditions during packing.

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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by vince1 » 09 Mar 2018 23:43

My answer is yes as well. I find the new pressing plants (with few exceptions) to be horrible at addressing static. New records seem to always come charged up as they are typically made using basic resin formulations and poor handling practices. So I wash brand new records with my solutions to, at the very least, get an antistat treatment and quality sleeves on them. It also gives me a chance to carefully examine the records for defects (which are increasingly common) while still within the "return policy" period and before, in the worst case, damaging a stylus. A proper cleaning also makes me confident that any excess breakdown products produced as a result of the hot pressing process have been neutralized or removed (and this is where the correct cleaning fluid is important: some could make matters worse).
Let me put it this way, in 40 years of buying records, I have never removed a new record from it's packaging and not observed some debris on it. Similarly, I always clean (or at least rinse) new, out-of-the-box wine glasses before drinking from them. I understand that in both cases (new records and wine glasses) the debris might just be predominately fibers of paper, but I don't take chances. Cheers!

reynolds617
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by reynolds617 » 10 Mar 2018 02:12

I have actually been shocked by the condition of new records I have purchased recently. Scratches and other damage have been very prevalent. Nothing a record cleaning machine can do to fix that.

Knieriem
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by Knieriem » 21 Mar 2018 16:36

So a little update, bought a knosti and have been cleaning my new records with L'art du Son and then rinsing them with distilled water. Unlistenable amounts of pops and clicks now, seems like it was a big mistake to clean my new records.

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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by vince1 » 21 Mar 2018 21:29

Knieriem wrote:So a little update, bought a knosti and have been cleaning my new records with L'art du Son and then rinsing them with distilled water. Unlistenable amounts of pops and clicks now, seems like it was a big mistake to clean my new records.
Are you using the knosti fluid and how are you drying the records? The Knosti fluid is problematic, there are posts all around the net stating this. People have better luck with their own fluid (e.g. https://www.whathifi.com/forum/turntabl ... -anti-stat) .
You'd be better suited with a vacuum device, as dirty fluid is extracted (not ground in) and most of the drying is done.

reynolds617
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by reynolds617 » 21 Mar 2018 21:41

vince1 wrote:
Knieriem wrote:So a little update, bought a knosti and have been cleaning my new records with L'art du Son and then rinsing them with distilled water. Unlistenable amounts of pops and clicks now, seems like it was a big mistake to clean my new records.
Are you using the knosti fluid and how are you drying the records? The Knosti fluid is problematic, there are posts all around the net stating this. People have better luck with their own fluid (e.g. https://www.whathifi.com/forum/turntabl ... -anti-stat) .
You'd be better suited with a vacuum device, as dirty fluid is extracted (not ground in) and most of the drying is done.
Vacuum record cleaner has been one of the best investments I've made. It's generally good for a one condition-level upgrade for most discs (e.g. a VG will be more like a VG+ when you're done unless there are scratches).

I've heard good things about L'art du Son but haven't used them myself. Technique for cleaning records is also important and can affect the end results. Sometimes you need to give them a second cleaning if they're really dirty. If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to go into more detail on the method I've settled on, but everyone has their own I'd guess. I'm sure some would disagree with some or all of how I do it, but I have found the results to be fantastic. Very few of the albums I own have audible pops, clicks or static. They key is to do the cleaning properly the first time, spend the extra few minutes, and obviously to buy used vinyl which is in decent shape. Your RCM can't fix a scratch.

ilyavictoria
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by ilyavictoria » 22 Mar 2018 02:22

Pops and clicks are either static or dust attracted by static.
Have you played the record before and after cleaning?
Does L'art du Son have anti-static properties?

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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by GyroSE » 22 Mar 2018 09:33

I've had my Okki Nokki RCM for 6 years now and I've tested a few different cleaning solutions, among these L'Art du Son is by far the most effective one. I believe it might be a little more challenging to clean records with a Knosti or Spin Clean when one is using L'Art du Son- the key is to rinse the record very well after cleaning it.

Knieriem
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by Knieriem » 22 Mar 2018 21:14

Listened to some new records that I haven't cleaned yet, and some of them too are crackly. Might be something wrong with my setup which is entry level for sure. A second generation Dual cs-505-4 with a red Ortofon 2M. Considering taking the TT to a tech to see if I did a worse job setting this thing up than I thought. Aligning the cartridge and whatnot.

Also, new vinyl is very dissapointing in general I must say, returning loads of wax coming scratched right out of the shrink wrap. I didn't play most of my records before cleaning them so I actually can't claim to know if the cleaning made it worse or not. Just dissapointed in having spent 200 dollars on cleaning supplies and still not being able to enjoy my records. Trying times for sure, starting to wonder if it was a mistake to get into this format. Hopefully this will get resolved somehow, any input appreciated
Last edited by Knieriem on 22 Mar 2018 21:30, edited 1 time in total.

Knieriem
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by Knieriem » 22 Mar 2018 21:16

washrecords wrote:I do to same too. I wash every new record. An exemple? Yesterday, i listen a MJQ french 1959 pressing, with a very little noise, some rare tips. And after i test Magnoglia soundtrack Mondo Pressing. It was very noisy ! So i had wash it.
Love your username haha!

Knieriem
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by Knieriem » 22 Mar 2018 21:22

GyroSE wrote:I've had my Okki Nokki RCM for 6 years now and I've tested a few different cleaning solutions, among these L'Art du Son is by far the most effective one. I believe it might be a little more challenging to clean records with a Knosti or Spin Clean when one is using L'Art du Son- the key is to rinse the record very well after cleaning it.
Thinking this might be part of the problem, maybe I have to change the distilled water more often since some of the fluid gets in the separate knosti I use for rinsing. After 15 records without changing the water there must be some dilated fluid on the records surfaces. Will try to do a second rinse and see if this helps.

vince1
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by vince1 » 22 Mar 2018 21:45

Fluid for tank type devices is a little different as it contains a flocculant. This is required to settle and aggregate removed debris at the bottom of the tank. If you use your own fluid or a commercial fluid that isn't by Spinclean or Knosti in their devices, you need to add a flocculant (e.g. polyaluminum chloride as Spinclean does) or you will just be grinding the debris back into the disc. Even then, you can see the limitation of these devices: you need to change the fluid often. This isn't so much an issue of you are using a DIY fluid, but it gets costly if you are using commercial preparations. You can also see the advantage of using a vacuum based device instead. Even a DIY wand connected to a shop vac will yield better results (you can also achieve much higher dilution with rinses).

Not all is lost if you already own a tank device. We experimented with Spinclean in the lab and came up with an effective protocol for the budget minded. First, dirty records are wetted with warm DIY detergent mix (Triton-based) and scrubbed with a paint pad over a sink. The record is then rinsed with purified water (actually tap water that runs through micron and charcoal filters) allowing the soapy solution to run off into the sink. Then the rinsed record is placed in the Spinclean filled with pure de-ionized water and given a few rotations. Then the record is vacuumed off with the wand and air dried. Results were VERY good using this method, where the Spinclean is simply used as a dI water rinsing device. In a few cases of really dirty records, an enzymatic treatment was useful before using this protocol.

reynolds617
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Re: Do I need to clean new vinyl?

Post by reynolds617 » 23 Mar 2018 00:59

Knieriem wrote:Listened to some new records that I haven't cleaned yet, and some of them too are crackly. Might be something wrong with my setup which is entry level for sure. A second generation Dual cs-505-4 with a red Ortofon 2M. Considering taking the TT to a tech to see if I did a worse job setting this thing up than I thought. Aligning the cartridge and whatnot.

Also, new vinyl is very dissapointing in general I must say, returning loads of wax coming scratched right out of the shrink wrap. I didn't play most of my records before cleaning them so I actually can't claim to know if the cleaning made it worse or not. Just dissapointed in having spent 200 dollars on cleaning supplies and still not being able to enjoy my records. Trying times for sure, starting to wonder if it was a mistake to get into this format. Hopefully this will get resolved somehow, any input appreciated
Here's what I've learned: there is a pretty high barrier to entry for this hobby. There are many moving parts, and if you don't do your research and spend money in the right places at the beginning, you'll probably regret it.

Before you even talk about the equipment used to play the music, you need to consider the investment you're making in the media. This at least was my rationale for buying a vacuum record cleaner. Yes, it's an extra expense, and yes, the good cleaning fluids will set you back a bit, but if you care about how your music sounds, it's absolutely worth the upfront cost. Over the course of years, it really only adds a small cost to the price of each piece of vinyl you acquire, and you can generally improve its sound quality by taking the time to clean it.

I haven't regretted my decision to buy a RCM even though it wasn't cheap. I've done the before and after A/B test with a number of used records and the difference is pretty audible. The other thing about cleaning records is to have more than one brush if you use different types of fluids and reserve one brush to ONLY use for the rinse phase with preferably lab-grade water. I use a solution of 1 part isopropyl alcohol and nine parts distilled water to clean the brushes about every 15 records or so. Put the brushes in a cereal bowl and soak overnight in that solution, then rinse them with distilled water and let air dry. This ensures you're not transferring the gunk from records you've already cleaned.

Some people might consider all of this overkill and would prefer to just play the records in the condition they buy them in and that's fine. But if you're really going to be concerned about audio quality, and are investing for the long term (to say nothing of what dirty records do to your stylus), then unfortunately, there's a little work and expense involved to make sure you're getting the most out of your investment.

My system is pretty modest by the standards of some on here, but I feel like really clean vinyl makes a difference in the sound quality I get out of it and the time and money invested in products to ensure vinyl sounds as as good as it can is money well spent. I personally enjoy the ritual of cleaning a record I got from a shop whether it's new or used. Your mileage may vary.