Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

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pklshpu
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Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by pklshpu » 14 Jan 2018 03:22

I have a Behringer U-Phono UFO202, even though there are better models than that, it is doing a decent job to my ears when it comes to rip my collection and create flacs (on SoundForge).

Well, I have bought a moving coil Technics cartridge, the 310MC. I understand the Behringer U-Phono, which already does a lot for the price, won't work with moving coils.

One solution for this is buying a moving coil step-up transformer, right? In that case, the Behringer U-Phono should receive the step-up transformer signal with its switch still set to "phono" (not "line"), right?? I suppose that in this situation the Behringer U-Phono will still be the only part of the chain that can perform the RIAA correction...

Other solution would be a pre-amp able to handle moving coil cartridges, isn't it? It's out of my budget, but I know iFi's micro-iPhono2 can handle nearly every kind of moving coil cartridge. So, for example, wouldn't it work if the setup were "Turntable => Ifi micro-iPhono2 => Behringer with the "input" switch on "Line" position => PC ???
I'm trying to see if that logic is correct: if I have more than one piece between the turntable and the PC, only one of them should work as a phono preamp (only one RIAA correction), right? That's why on the "iFi" example I'm guessing that Behringer should be in the "line" position, not "phono", whereas in the "step-up" example I would guess "line" (not "phono")...

Thanks

analogaudio
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by analogaudio » 14 Jan 2018 22:04

Yes one place must complete RIAA filtering, only one.

Moving coil requires more amplification than MM, about 10x more. It is possible that this extra amplification can be found in the Behringer or in the computer by making an adjustment in software. There is another important difference for MC the preamp should have a low value input impedance, usually between 100ohms and 1000ohms. The normal input impedance for an MM cart is 47000ohms and this is probably the value for the Behringer. If you find that there is sufficient amplification from the software the sound quality may be satisfactory however the high value of input impedance may cause some loss of quality.

If you decide to use a step up transformer with the Behringer this combination will automatically create the low value input impedance required by the MC cart.

pklshpu
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by pklshpu » 15 Jan 2018 22:34

Thanks, Ted!

Do the cartridge and the step-up transformer must have a "perfect" specs match?

I suppose not, as taking my 310MC Technics cartridge for example, it has output voltage 0.2 mV 1 kHz, D.C. resistance 30 Ω, impedance 30 Ω ("Pure resistance", don't have a clue what that means), whereas the Technics SU-300MC preamplifier (an equipment made to work with MCs, from the same brand) has Input Impedance: 47 Ω (not kΩ), and I'd be inclined to take for a fact that it should work with the 310MC cartridge...

If it must be a perfect match, then one should seek products like the Ifi Micro-iPhono2 as I believe it covers a huge spectrum of MC's. With emphasis on "I believe", of course, as MC is a complete new world to me...

analogaudio
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by analogaudio » 16 Jan 2018 20:02

The specification for that Technics preamp is a good guide. 47 ohms sounds reasonable. With carts and preamps things change gently as quantities are varied, the difference between 47 ohms and 100 ohms may be inaudible and insignificant.

rodney7
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by rodney7 » 10 Aug 2018 22:42

The ifi iPhono set at 330ohm should be fine for the 310MC

pklshpu
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by pklshpu » 10 Aug 2018 23:58

rodney7 wrote:The ifi iPhono set at 330ohm should be fine for the 310MC
Thanks!

I am giving a lot of thoughts to Ifi Phono2 recently. I am considering if it would make a good pair with Apogee Duet2 for digital conversion. I've been hearing marvelous comments about it, but also read here and there that some units start to have noise issues after a while. But it makes it even more interesting now that I know it will accept the 310MC!
Thanks again!

ChrisfromRI
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by ChrisfromRI » 14 Aug 2018 02:32

I have ripped lots of CDs from records played with my Koetsu Rosewood Low Output Moving Coil cartridge, and they always sound great.

Tonybro
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by Tonybro » 14 Aug 2018 07:10

I have ripped lots of vinyl via my LP12 with Cadenza LOMC cart via my ifi iPhono and it sounds fantastic.

Imho, the iPhono is amazing and performs exceedingly well.

IndigoRock2001
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by IndigoRock2001 » 14 Aug 2018 21:45

This may seem a dumb thing to say,,, but,,, why don't you just use a MM cart for ripping? Do you think the quality of an MC cart will be so much better that it's worth the extra expense you are considering? I was chasing the MC dream (of it sounding so much better) when I got my Denon DL-103 cart. I then went through 3 preamps trying to find one that didn't buzz. Any case the total expense with the cart and preamp $220 + $180 was $400 and in the end I think I'm going to switch back to my AT-440mlb MM cart simply because in truth it really sounds better than the MC cart. In a way no one could have told me this before I spent the 400 bucks finding it out, when I decide I need something I'm completely possessed with getting it, even if I have to mortgage the farm to get it. I'm gonna put my MC cart aside. Maybe it'll be great for you. Just an object lesson for anyone it's appropriate for. Just sayin'
indi

ChrisfromRI
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by ChrisfromRI » 14 Aug 2018 22:58

IndigoRock2001 wrote:This may seem a dumb thing to say,,, but,,, why don't you just use a MM cart for ripping? Do you think the quality of an MC cart will be so much better that it's worth the extra expense you are considering? I was chasing the MC dream (of it sounding so much better) when I got my Denon DL-103 cart. I then went through 3 preamps trying to find one that didn't buzz. Any case the total expense with the cart and preamp $220 + $180 was $400 and in the end I think I'm going to switch back to my AT-440mlb MM cart simply because in truth it really sounds better than the MC cart. In a way no one could have told me this before I spent the 400 bucks finding it out, when I decide I need something I'm completely possessed with getting it, even if I have to mortgage the farm to get it. I'm gonna put my MC cart aside. Maybe it'll be great for you. Just an object lesson for anyone it's appropriate for. Just sayin'
indi
Sure at the low price points you're talking about an MC can end up being a marginal solution, and it also depends a lot on your tonearm as well. At lower price points many tonearms may not be up to the task of handling a low compliance cartridge. It takes very good tonearm bearings to handle the energy of a typical MC. The symptom of a weak arm is often a bright hard brittle sound - yet you can move the same cartridge to a better arm and it sounds warm yet extended instead. The Koetsu cartridges are that way.

So in my case I was playing the record using a Koetsu Rosewood LOMC cartridge on a Goldmund Turntable/Arm through a Jeff Rowland LOMC Phono Stage into a CD Recorder. I made several CDs this way from records not available on CD, and still have and use them and they still sound great when I can't play the records - like in the car, etc. Using the best front end you can put together to make a CD recording assures that you will have as much resolution as possible no matter what system the CD gets played back on. It might be overkill for the car where you have road noise and other distractions, but if you bring that CD over to a friend's house with a nice system you will appreciate having made the best recording you could have made. I even ended up ripping those CDs to my Brennan B2 and they live on in an even easier format...

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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by Hanuman » 15 Aug 2018 04:12

ChrisfromRI wrote:So in my case I was playing the record using a Koetsu Rosewood LOMC cartridge on a Goldmund Turntable/Arm through a Jeff Rowland LOMC Phono Stage into a CD Recorder. I made several CDs this way from records not available on CD, and still have and use them and they still sound great when I can't play the records - like in the car, etc. Using the best front end you can put together to make a CD recording assures that you will have as much resolution as possible no matter what system the CD gets played back on. It might be overkill for the car where you have road noise and other distractions, but if you bring that CD over to a friend's house with a nice system you will appreciate having made the best recording you could have made.
No dispute to any of that but, personally, I only very rarely use my best cartridges (including: Koetsu Rosewood Signature, Ortofon SPU Royal & Lyra Delos) for ripping. Most of my digital files are done with an Ortofon MC10 Supreme, a few are done with a Denon DL-103R and fewer with either Lyra Delos or Dynavector Karat 17D3. Any better that the MC10 or '103 is certainly overkill for the car.

We audiophiles spend too much on cartridges. Hold back and spend it on the phono stage.
... Koetsu Rosewood LOMC cartridge on a Goldmund Turntable/Arm through a Jeff Rowland LOMC Phono Stage ...
1980's drool! I love that stuff.

Bonzo_Dog
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Re: Ripping with Moving Coil Cartridge

Post by Bonzo_Dog » 02 Sep 2018 00:31

I use a MC pick-up myself to digitize records.

Of course, you can use whatever equipment you have playing the record normally. You can play a record normally with your MC pick-up, right?

Playing a record with a MC-pick up needs a RIAA that supports a MC pick-up. Digitize a record like you would normally play it. Just take the signal from your RIAA and into your ADC connected to your PC (or use the ACD built into the soundcard of your PC). Alternatively you can use tape-out on your amplifier. Use Audacity to record on the PC. The signal that comes out of your MC-supporting RIAA don't need any further analog processing - it's ready for the ADC.

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